Passages that deal with salvation ignored!

[Amy.G]

HP: What is repentance?

A change of mind.

μετανοέω
metanoeō
met-an-o-eh'-o
From G3326 and G3539; to think differently or afterwards, that is, reconsider (morally to feel compunction): - repent.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Amy: A change of mind.

HP: I see remorse as an important part of repentance as well. Knowing that I could have done other than what I did but did not.

I see faith and repentance as two distinct conditions. Faith is faith and repentance is repentance . We are called on to exercise both.

 

[Gup20]

This is an interesting discussion. Allow me to put in my 2 cents.

I believe that the Apostle Paul argues effectively that salvation is by faith alone. However, I believe repentance is an expression of our faith. Like someone who is alive ought to breath, someone with faith ought to be repentant.

1Jo 2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

Gal 3:

Gal 3:1 You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified.
2 I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by observing the law, or by believing what you heard?
3 Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit, are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort?

Paul makes the case with the Galatians that it was not by "works" (following the law) that they are saved, but it was by faith. He goes on to give an example of what he, Paul, believes to be the first man saved by faith in Jesus Christ, Abraham -

Gal 3:6 Consider Abraham: "He believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness."

In Romans, Paul uses the powerful agrument again.

Rom 4:2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath [whereof] to glory; but not before God.
3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

Paul goes on to prove by scripture (the old Testament in fact) that righteousness is by faith in Jesus Christ alone, and nothing else is necessary:

Rom 4:9 Is this blessedness only for the circumcised, or also for the uncircumcised? We have been saying that Abraham's faith was credited to him as righteousness.
10 Under what circumstances was it credited? Was it after he was circumcised, or before? It was not after, but before!

Paul uses Genesis 15-17 as his argument. He says that Abraham was counted as "righteous" - his sins being forgiven - after he believed the Gospel of Jesus Christ preached to him by God (Gal 3:8), but before he performed any corresponding action (circumcision). This means that it was his faith (in Jesus Christ) alone that made him righteous.

So it is faith (in Jesus Christ) that makes us righteous, according to the Old Testament (Genesis) and the New Testament (the apostle Paul in Romans and Galatians).

So then repentance - as Jesus' disciple John seems to indicate - is a natural by-product and outworking of our faith. As James says, faith without works is dead. For example: if someone is standing in the road, and a car is coming at them they may proclaim to everyone that they believe the car will not hit them. But if they dive out of the way of the vehicle at the last moment, their actions demonstrate they truly did believe that the car was going to hit them. In the same way, repentance is a natural expression of the faith inside of us. Someone who has faith, ought to have repentance. Someone who is alive, ought to be breathing.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Gup20: I believe that the Apostle Paul argues effectively that salvation is by faith alone. However, I believe repentance is an expression of our faith. Like someone who is alive ought to breath, someone with faith ought to be repentant.

HP: God COMMANDS men everywhere to repent. Sorry Gup20. If repentance was just a normal part of faith, a command to do so would be meaningless. The only one I know of that needs to be told to breathe is the blond at the salon.

"There was a blonde that went to the hair salon with headphones. Before the barber started cutting her hair she told him "Make sure not to knock the headphones off my head". So the barber was sure not to. The next time, the blonde said the same thing "Do not knock the headphones off my head". The barber again, did what he was told. The third time she went, she told the barber again "Don't knock the headphones off my head", this time though, the barber accidentally knocked them off. As soon as the headphones fell off, the blonde dropped to the floor unconcious. The barber picked up the headphones and listened, and this is what it said "Breathe in, breathe out, breathe in, breathe out...." :smilewinkgrin: :tonofbricks:

 

[EdSutton]

the blond at the salon.

There was a blonde (sic) that went to the hair salon with headphones. Before the barber started cutting her hair she told him "Make sure not to knock the headphones off my head". So the barber was sure not to. The next time, the blonde said the same thing "Do not knock the headphones off my head". The barber again, did what he was told. The third time she went, she told the barber again "Don't knock the headphones off my head", this time though, the barber accidentally knocked them off. As soon as the headphones fell off, the blonde dropped to the floor unconcious (sic). The barber picked up the headphones and listened, and this is what it said "Breathe in, breathe out, breathe in, breathe out...." :smilewinkgrin: :tonofbricks:

This reminds me of the fellow who wanted to check if his turn signal was working, after he'd replaced the bulb, and asked the nearest person, who happend to be a blond, if she'd help him by telling if tghe signal was working.

She said she would and he turned on the turn signal to hear "OK! It's on; it's off; it's on; it's off; it's on; it's o...!"

Ed

 

[EdSutton]

HP: God COMMANDS men everywhere to repent. Sorry Gup20. If repentance was just a normal part of faith, a command to do so would be meaningless.

We are commanded to believe, as well. We are also commanded to do goof to all men; Cast our burdens on the Lord, Pray without ceasing; Rejoice always; Give thanks for all things; Be filled with the Spirit; etc.. Just a very few of those found in the NT, not to even mention the hundreds of those found in the OT.

All of these are commands.

Are any of these meaningless? Of course not!

How about all of them being 'requirements' for salvation, which is what I believe you are really driving at.?

Would this be a good place to bring up that I hear many things preached as commands for salvation, that God never said, such as "Repent of your sins!", "Turn from sin!", and some others, with perhaps the most despicable one of all being - "Make Jesus Lord!"??

As to the last one, I have expressed my own opinion, more than once, that this approaches or tops the height of ego, as did Lucifer!

Ed

 

[DeafPosttrib]

EdSutton,

You say,

...that God never said, such as "Repent of your sins!" "Turn from sin!" and some others with perhaps the most despicable one of all being - "Make Jesus Lord"??

You asked discuss abour the requirements for salvation.

Bible teaces us that repentance is require for salvation.

In 1 Peter 3:9 telling us, God is longsuffering and not want all people go hell, but want all come to repentance.

That is God's Will, He commands all people to repent.

In Ezekiel 18:21 says, "But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he committed. and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die."

It tells us very clear that a person must repent from sins, and obey God's way, and follow Him, doing the right things, shall live(spiritually).

If we do not repent of sins, we shall perish in hell WITH our sins.

Often, they saying repent means change mind. Even, Late Dr. Curtis Hutson said of repent means change mind.

They are partially correct. But, it is more than just change mind, also, sorrow over our wicked ways toward God with our heart and mind. Determined not do the wicked things again, change our life for God, and turn around and follow God.

There are several requirements to have eternal life

1. Believe
2. Faith
3. Repent from sins
4. Confess sins to Christ
5. Baptize
6. Follow Christ
7. Obey
8. Holy life
9. Serve the Lord

These are more than just 'believed' at a one time event.

Salvation requires that we must have faith and obey the Lord, in order to have eternal life.

Many people claim, they do have faith, but do nothing for the Lord, then, therefore their faith is dead. Period.

If they do not obey God, do nothing for the Lord. Then, they shall not have eternal life at the end.

Matt. 10:22 and 24:13 both telling us that we must endure our life all the way to the death, then we shall be saved-overcome to have eternal life. That what Christ actual said. We better obey Him.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

 

[Thinkingstuff]

EdSutton,

You say,

You asked discuss abour the requirements for salvation.

Bible teaces us that repentance is require for salvation.

In 1 Peter 3:9 telling us, God is longsuffering and not want all people go hell, but want all come to repentance.

That is God's Will, He commands all people to repent.

In Ezekiel 18:21 says, "But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he committed. and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die."

It tells us very clear that a person must repent from sins, and obey God's way, and follow Him, doing the right things, shall live(spiritually).

If we do not repent of sins, we shall perish in hell WITH our sins.

Often, they saying repent means change mind. Even, Late Dr. Curtis Hutson said of repent means change mind.

They are partially correct. But, it is more than just change mind, also, sorrow over our wicked ways toward God with our heart and mind. Determined not do the wicked things again, change our life for God, and turn around and follow God.

There are several requirements to have eternal life

1. Believe
2. Faith
3. Repent from sins
4. Confess sins to Christ
5. Baptize
6. Follow Christ
7. Obey
8. Holy life
9. Serve the Lord

These are more than just 'believed' at a one time event.

Salvation requires that we must have faith and obey the Lord, in order to have eternal life.

Many people claim, they do have faith, but do nothing for the Lord, then, therefore their faith is dead. Period.

If they do not obey God, do nothing for the Lord. Then, they shall not have eternal life at the end.

Matt. 10:22 and 24:13 both telling us that we must endure our life all the way to the death, then we shall be saved-overcome to have eternal life. That what Christ actual said. We better obey Him.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

And just a note Romans 5 says that because of Adam's sin we were made unrighteous but through Jesus Christ we are made righteous. I find it interesting that the term declared wasn't used. So following that line of thought we are inserted into Christ relationship with the father because we are adopted heirs or sons of God there for we have the responsibility of acting like sons and heirs. And we are more than just declared righteous but actually made so. Just some more food for thought. With their view of justification in mine

 

[thegospelgeek]

There are several requirements to have eternal life

1. Believe
2. Faith
3. Repent from sins
4. Confess sins to Christ
5. Baptize
6. Follow Christ
7. Obey
8. Holy life
9. Serve the Lord

These are more than just 'believed' at a one time event.

Salvation requires that we must have faith and obey the Lord, in order to have eternal life.

Many people claim, they do have faith, but do nothing for the Lord, then, therefore their faith is dead. Period.

If they do not obey God, do nothing for the Lord. Then, they shall not have eternal life at the end.

Matt. 10:22 and 24:13 both telling us that we must endure our life all the way to the death, then we shall be saved-overcome to have eternal life. That what Christ actual said. We better obey Him.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

Points 1-4 lead to Eternal life. Points 5-9 are because one has eternal life.

An apple tree has apples because it is an apple tree. It can not help but to make apples. It is not capable of making oranges. An apple tree does not have apples to make it an apple tree.

One's sins do not make one a sinner, but one sins because they are a sinner.

One does the following;
5. Baptize
6. Follow Christ
7. Obey
8. Holy life
9. Serve the Lord

Because they are saved, not to be saved. As you quoted James you must notice that these "works" are evidence not cause.

Do not confuse what makes one a Christian with what one does because they are Christian.

 

[Gup20]

HP: God COMMANDS men everywhere to repent. Sorry Gup20. If repentance was just a normal part of faith, a command to do so would be meaningless.

God commands us to do a lot of things, but which of them are pre-requisites to salvation, and which come after one is made righteous?

Consider the Apostle Paul's argument in Romans:

Rom 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Rom 4:9 [Cometh] this blessedness then upon the circumcision [only], or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.
10 How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision.

This of course is referring to Genesis 15-17. God is making a covenant with Abraham, and COMMANDS him to become circumcised. But the point Paul makes is that - as soon as Abraham was found to have faith, God counts the faith as righteousness. Paul continues to make the point that this was PRIOR to Abraham obeying God's command to become circumcised.

Therefore we can see that righteousness is obtained by faith alone.

That being said - we are commanded to do good works. But even in the midst of reminding us that faith wroght with our works is good, we are also reminded that there is no way we can earn our salvation.

Jam 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one [point], he is guilty of all.

We are commanded to do good works because we are carnal and wouldn't do them naturally, yes. We are told to do them because we love God, and those who love God obey his commands. However, this is separate from the issue from salvation, which is only obtained by faith.

Furthermore, what ability do we have to follow God's commands if we don't have Christ within us helping us to do so? Isn't it like asking a soldier to go to war without giving him weapons or armor?

 

[thegospelgeek]

(Act 15:9) And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.

(Act 15:10) Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?

(Act 15:11) But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.