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Passages that you have wrestled (or struggled) with in your Christian life

kyredneck

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Facing a truly difficult circumstance, ..facing separation from His Father.

Matthew Chapter 26

53​

Or thinkest thou that I cannot beseech my Father, and he shall even now send me more than twelve legions of angels?

He could have asked His Father and gotten totally clear of the 'circumstance', but He chose to let things take their course.

I believe the cup was death:

Hebrews Chapter 5

7​

Who in the days of his flesh, having offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and having been heard for his godly fear,

His Father heard His supplication and saved Him from death; He raised Him from the dead.
 

Blank

Active Member
Matthew Chapter 26

53​

Or thinkest thou that I cannot beseech my Father, and he shall even now send me more than twelve legions of angels?

He could have asked His Father and gotten totally clear of the 'circumstance', but He chose to let things take their course.

I believe the cup was death:

Hebrews Chapter 5

7​

Who in the days of his flesh, having offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and having been heard for his godly fear,

His Father heard His supplication and saved Him from death; He raised Him from the dead.
Death is separation from God.
 

kyredneck

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Death is separation from God.

K. If that's as far as you want to take it.

The popular view of the passage is that Christ, in a moment of weakness, was asking to avoid the cross, but He wasn't asking that at all. V 53 confirms that.

Many of the passages from the Messianic Psalms confirms that also. He was asking to not be left in the grave, and He wasn't. God raised Him from the dead.
 
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37818

Well-Known Member
My first Bihle difficulty was.a Scofield note on 1 John 5:7.

'It is generally agreed that v.7 has no real authority, and has been inserted. 1 John 5:7.'
 
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37818

Well-Known Member
Jesus incarnate is everywhere? Besides, Jesus as man, suffered separation from the Father so we wouldn't have to.
Forsaken does not mean separated from God, God being omnipresent. Jesus changed how He remained with God.
 

Wesley Briggman

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Death is separation from God.
Three types of death/life:
Spiritual death - soul separated from God
Spiritual life - soul has a relationship with God

Physical death - soul is separated from the body/physical world
Physical life - body has a relationship with the world

Eternal death - results of physical death while being spiritually dead - the soul is in torment
Eternal life - if physical death occurs while being spiritually alive - the soul enters paradise
 

Blank

Active Member
Forsaken does not mean separated from God, God being omnipresent. Jesus changed how He remained with God.
Then explain, "My God, my God why hast thou forsaken me"

Mark 15:34 KJV
And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

Surely not just to fulfill Psalm 22:1

Psalm 22:1 KJV
My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring?
 

Blank

Active Member
Both. A Bible difficulty, because of what the note alleged. I much latter understood some of the evidence why it wasn't Holy Scripture.
That all depends on which set of manuscripts you go by, the majority with the greater number of attestations, or the older but fewer manuscripts with fewer attestations. Scholars have not figured that out yet.
 

37818

Well-Known Member
Then explain, "My God, my God why hast thou forsaken me"

Mark 15:34 KJV
And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

Surely not just to fulfill Psalm 22:1

Psalm 22:1 KJV
My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring?
Forsaken does not disallow not being separated. God is omnipresent. And He cannot not be omnipresent or He would not be God. And God cannot cease being God. All three Persons are omnipresent being God. This includes the incarnate Son being God.

John 3:13, And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
 

Blank

Active Member
Then explain, "My God, my God why hast thou forsaken me"

Mark 15:34 KJV
And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

Surely not just to fulfill Psalm 22:1

Psalm 22:1 KJV
My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring?
Jesus being fully God/fully man could be forsaken regarding His humanity.
As I said in post #30..."Jesus as man, suffered separation from the Father so we wouldn't have to."
Or are you denying His humanity?
 
turning rn to the words of our Lord in Matthew 7:6. I'm reminded that Jesus, in His infinite wisdom, offers counsel here that, while often overlooked, speaks profoundly to the nature of our witness, the stewardship of the gospel, and the boundaries of our engagement with the world.


The words "Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine" are not merely a call for caution; they are an instruction for discernment. In a world filled with the restless noise of rebellion and the desolate cries of sin, we are reminded that our message, our lives, and the gospel truths are precious. It is of utmost importance that we, as faithful stewards of the mysteries of God, handle what is holy with due reverence and wisdom.


Let's dive deeper into the meaning of this passage, leaning on the rich theological heritage of the Church and the clear teaching of Scripture, so that we might be equipped to discern "dogs and swine" and exercise wisdom in our dealings with them.


1. Contextualizing the Words of Christ: A Call for Discerning Witness

Before we plunge into the identity of these "dogs" and "swine," we must first understand the broader context of Matthew 7:6. In the previous verses, Christ teaches about the need for discernment in judgment (Matt. 7:1-5), the importance of prayer (Matt. 7:7-11), and the narrow gate that leads to life (Matt. 7:13-14). These teachings, set in the Sermon on the Mount, concern the nature of true righteousness—a righteousness that is not of the external law but of the heart, a righteousness wrought by grace.

This makes Matthew 7:6 all the more striking. Jesus is not only warning us about external conduct but about the stewardship of the gospel itself. The "holy" and "pearls" are metaphors for the precious truths of the Kingdom, the sacred message of the gospel, the very wisdom of God that has been revealed to His people.

To cast these pearls before swine or give what is holy to dogs is a violation of our duty to honor God's truth and a failure to properly discern those who are fit to hear it. This passage calls for us to be wise as serpents and harmless as doves (Matt. 10:16), recognizing that there are those who will trample underfoot what we hold dear, and in doing so, we expose ourselves and others to greater harm.


2. The Identity of the "Dogs" and "Swine": Who Are They?

To identify the "dogs" and "swine" of Matthew 7:6, we must turn to the Scriptures and their cultural and linguistic context. The language of "dogs" and "swine" is not arbitrary; it is deeply rooted in the Old Testament and the cultural understanding of both the Jewish people and the broader ancient world.

  • Dogs: In the ancient world, particularly in the Hebrew context, dogs were not domesticated pets as we think of them today. They were scavengers, unclean animals that roamed the streets, devouring refuse. The term "dog" in the Bible is used metaphorically to describe those who are outside the covenant, those who live in open defiance to God's law, and those who are hostile to His people. In Philippians 3:2, Paul uses the term to refer to false teachers—those who seek to distort the gospel and lead God's people astray. Dogs represent the unclean, the rebellious, the spiritually dead.
  • Swine: Similarly, pigs were ceremonially unclean in Jewish law (Leviticus 11:7). The swine is a symbol of defilement, of those who are enslaved to their appetites and who scorn the holiness of God. Jesus Himself used swine in Matthew 8:31-32 to describe the demonic possession of the Gadarene man, underscoring the connection between swine and evil forces. Swine represent the spiritually unclean, the untouchable, and those who are in bondage to sin, unable or unwilling to receive the purity of the gospel.
In the broader sense, dogs and swine represent those who reject the gospel with a hardened heart. They are not merely ignorant; they are hostile to the truth, and they will inevitably respond with disdain, trampling upon the pearls of wisdom that we offer. These are those who mock and scorn the holy things of God, who have neither understanding nor humility to receive the grace we extend.


3. How Do We Identify These "Dogs" and "Swine"?


Now, the question remains: How do we identify these individuals in our day, particularly in a context where the lines between the sacred and the profane are often blurred? Here are a few thoughts on discerning those to whom we should not freely give the pearls of the gospel.

  1. A Life of Open Defiance and Rebellion Against God
    Those who persistently live in rebellion to God’s commandments, despite clear teaching and loving correction, fall into this category. We are not to engage in fruitless debates with those who mock God, reject His sovereignty, and blaspheme His name. 1 Corinthians 1:18 tells us that the word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing. There is a point where our efforts to reason with them become futile.
  2. Hostility to the Gospel
    Those who actively persecute the truth or attempt to silence the gospel fall under the category of “dogs” and “swine.” The false teachers who distort the gospel for selfish gain, leading others astray, are prime examples of this. Jesus warned us that false prophets would come in sheep’s clothing (Matt. 7:15), and the apostle Paul similarly cautioned against those who “dispute over foolish and ignorant speculations” (2 Timothy 2:23).
  3. Hardness of Heart
    There are some whose hearts are so hardened that no matter how lovingly or faithfully we preach the gospel, they will refuse to hear. Matthew 13:15 describes such hearts as calloused, incapable of receiving the truth. These individuals are often trapped in their sin, and the Spirit may be calling us to cease our efforts for the time being—to not cast pearls before those who will trample them underfoot.
  4. The Unrepentant and Unwilling to Be Reconciled
    Scripture makes clear that repentance is key to salvation. When a person rejects repentance, preferring sin to salvation, they are in danger of being numbered among the dogs and swine. Jesus taught His disciples to shake the dust off their feet and move on when their message is rejected (Matt. 10:14). There comes a time when further engagement is not only unfruitful but spiritually dangerous.

4. Wisdom: How to Care for the Souls of Others


As believers we are tasked with dispensing the gospel faithfully and with wisdom. To offer the gospel to those who reject it is a task requiring discernment. But let us not misunderstand: This teaching is not a call to judgmental isolation or exclusivity. We are not to treat the lost with contempt. We must still love, pray for, and seek to engage with those who are far from Christ. Yet, we are called to be discerning stewards of the gospel.

To cast pearls before swine is to squander the precious truths of God’s Word on those who refuse to hear, diminishing the sacred value of the message. Instead, let us focus on those whom God is drawing to Himself—those who are humble in heart, those whose hearts are tender and open to hearing the Word of life.


Conclusion


Matthew 7:6 calls us to balance courageous witness with holy discernment. The pearls of the gospel are too precious to be given to those who will trample them underfoot. Let us therefore exercise wisdom, and with the mind of Christ, discern when to speak and when to remain silent, knowing that our ultimate goal is not to condemn but to faithfully proclaim Christ and guard the sacred trust we have been given.

May God give us grace to be faithful in our calling, wise in our approach, and always grounded in love, as we seek to fulfill the Great Commission in these dark times.

In Christ’s name, Amen.

I simply try and avoid talking to people that treat God's revealed word with utter contempt, and/or treat God's people with the same contempt.


Your breakdown of Matthew 7:6 is so thoughtful! I really appreciate how you dug into the context and brought out the call for discernment without losing sight of love. The way you explained "dogs" and "swine" as those who reject the gospel with hostility makes a lot of sense, especially when you tie it to the cultural meaning back then. It’s a reminder that sharing the gospel is precious, and we need to be wise about where and how we share it.

I totally get your point about avoiding folks who show contempt for God’s truth. It’s draining to keep pushing where there’s no openness. I think the balance you mentioned—being bold but discerning—really hits home. It’s like knowing when to plant seeds and when to step back and pray. How do you personally decide when to keep engaging versus when to walk away? I’d love to hear more about how you navigate that!
 
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