NaasPreacher (C4K)
Well-Known Member
Okay - how about a Biblical mandate for the church (not Isreal) to be involved in the politics of the land?
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Pastor Accused of Politics From Pulpit
- Thread starter RodH
- Start date
To me, preaching biblically on moral issues (abortion, homosexuality, etc.) is perfectly fine for the church. Christians are called to be moral people.
However, how on earth can a veiled stump speech for Bush (or Kerry) glorify God? You don't have to show the congregation the differences between the candidates. You just make your case biblically, and the congregation will find out on its own for whom to vote. The pastor's job is to minister to God's people, not to campaign.
However, how on earth can a veiled stump speech for Bush (or Kerry) glorify God? You don't have to show the congregation the differences between the candidates. You just make your case biblically, and the congregation will find out on its own for whom to vote. The pastor's job is to minister to God's people, not to campaign.
NaasPreacher (C4K)
Well-Known Member
Salt and light is fine. Christians should be involved in their community like anyone else. They should vote, campaign, even run for office if they wish. But the pulpit is the place for the proclamation of the word of God.
NaasPreacher (C4K)
Well-Known Member
That's fine. Abortion is sin, homosexuality is sin, etc, etc.
BUT---higher taxes is not sin, liberal economic policy is not sin, a weak defensive posture is not sin, gun control is not sin, etc, etc.
Preach the word - but stay out of politics!
BUT---higher taxes is not sin, liberal economic policy is not sin, a weak defensive posture is not sin, gun control is not sin, etc, etc.
Preach the word - but stay out of politics!
I never said ANYTHING about preaching on taxes necessarily. But the moment you preach on abortion, homosexuality, etc., nowadays you've just preached on politics my friend.
Besides, is it wrong for me to speak out against the state deciding to tax something and give the proceeds to something unBiblical, or reinstituting segregation? If you say "preach the Word but stay out of politics", you may as well be saying "Preach the Word, but not the Bible"
Besides, is it wrong for me to speak out against the state deciding to tax something and give the proceeds to something unBiblical, or reinstituting segregation? If you say "preach the Word but stay out of politics", you may as well be saying "Preach the Word, but not the Bible"
NaasPreacher (C4K)
Well-Known Member
Preach sin as sin - full stop. Don't make sin a political issue. We all know the kind of thing I am talking about.
Things like:
"I'm not telling you how to vote, but John Kerry supports abortion and George Bush doesn't. Killing unborn babies is sin and we'd better be careful who we support."
Things like:
"I'm not telling you how to vote, but John Kerry supports abortion and George Bush doesn't. Killing unborn babies is sin and we'd better be careful who we support."
I think we're saying some essentially similar things. However, I maintain that no matter how you approach it, you WILL say something political nowadays when you make a moral pronouncement. Can't be avoided. It's the culture. And the thought police should stop trying to curtail it and do something productive.
NaasPreacher (C4K)
Well-Known Member
From what I read in the OP this guy went way beyond that - never mentioning names - but flashing images as he talked about each candidate.
I have lived in Ireland for ten years and seen the result of pulpit politics up in Northen Ireland. It is a disgrace.
I still maintain that if this had been a thinly veiled pro-Kerry rally in a mosque people would be outraged.
I have lived in Ireland for ten years and seen the result of pulpit politics up in Northen Ireland. It is a disgrace.
I still maintain that if this had been a thinly veiled pro-Kerry rally in a mosque people would be outraged.
Never mind what the preacher did or did not do. During the American Revolution the Presbyterian Pulpits were on fire for the American Revolution. It wasn't until the shifty LBJ in 1954 snuck through the 501-c-3 rule that the left and the Democrats started to try to silence pulpits with the illegal threat of taxing the churches, C4K.
As for Ireland, they can hardly compare to the USA. Personally, I think that the comparison is invalid because the USA has a degree of freedom unknown in Europe with her old world restrictions on Liberty. Now Europe is saying that preaching sodomy is a sin is political and preachers are being fined, etc.
Which, C4K, brings us to the point that in the USA the preacher has the God-given right to free speech. LBJ with his sledge hammer 501-c-3 intended to censor his many political enemies in Texas who were aware of his vote theft and personal corruption.
Finally, you mention Kerry rallies in mosques, etc. Rev. Lynn would not be outraged at any Democrat Party activity and neither would the federal bureaucrats in charge of selective enforcement. In fact, Rev. Lynn and that crowd never said a word in 1984 when Jesse Jackson took up collections in church sanctuaries and made stump speeches from pulpits.
The law is corrupt. Frankly, I am amazed that you support a corrupt law like that. Let me assure that the Black Baptist churches in this part of Indianapolis are going to announce from the pulpit this fall that one should vote for Kerry. And I have to ask you what sort of political activity you think goes on in American Catholic churches except the same sort of Democrat Party message delivered from the pulpit by the political priests?
Let me make it clear that I am not saying that a preacher should preach candidates from the pulpit, but I am saying that he has a God-given right to say whatever he likes from the pulpit. Of course, I oppose the ordination of women and homosexuals.
As for Ireland, they can hardly compare to the USA. Personally, I think that the comparison is invalid because the USA has a degree of freedom unknown in Europe with her old world restrictions on Liberty. Now Europe is saying that preaching sodomy is a sin is political and preachers are being fined, etc.
Which, C4K, brings us to the point that in the USA the preacher has the God-given right to free speech. LBJ with his sledge hammer 501-c-3 intended to censor his many political enemies in Texas who were aware of his vote theft and personal corruption.
Finally, you mention Kerry rallies in mosques, etc. Rev. Lynn would not be outraged at any Democrat Party activity and neither would the federal bureaucrats in charge of selective enforcement. In fact, Rev. Lynn and that crowd never said a word in 1984 when Jesse Jackson took up collections in church sanctuaries and made stump speeches from pulpits.
The law is corrupt. Frankly, I am amazed that you support a corrupt law like that. Let me assure that the Black Baptist churches in this part of Indianapolis are going to announce from the pulpit this fall that one should vote for Kerry. And I have to ask you what sort of political activity you think goes on in American Catholic churches except the same sort of Democrat Party message delivered from the pulpit by the political priests?
Let me make it clear that I am not saying that a preacher should preach candidates from the pulpit, but I am saying that he has a God-given right to say whatever he likes from the pulpit. Of course, I oppose the ordination of women and homosexuals.
NaasPreacher (C4K)
Well-Known Member
We are talking Northern Ireland (part of the United Kingdom). What freedoms does the US have that the UK doesn't have? I am an American, but i really get tired of this old line about how free the US is. In the UK gospel preachers go into the schools and have chapel, preaching the gospel of Jesus Christ and giving invitations. When is the last time that happened in the US? On that point, what freedoms does the US have that I don't have here in the Republic of Ireland (a different country from Northern Ireland)? I have shared the gospel in schools and I have the right to drop gospel newsletters through the lwtter boxes of every home in my town.
I am not arguing whether he has the right or not - that is not the question. The question is "Should he do it?" Where in the New Testament, where young churches are being established, do we find any admonition to preach politics?
Why shouldn't a preacher be able to apply God's word to political issues -- war, justice, death penalty, abortion, wickedness, homosexuality, marriage, economic policy, etc. I can think of Biblical priciples that apply to each of these and several others. I can even think of Biblical examples where a preacher did address many if not all of these issues.
Andy
Andy
NaasPreacher (C4K)
Well-Known Member
I have never said in any of my posts that pastors should not preach against sin.
The problem is invovlement in politcs - the OP in this thread was about a thinly veiled political rally held in a church. This is where my problem comes. Churches are not the place for politcal rallies of ANY ilk. They are not the place for partisan politics. If we were to be honest many would doubt the salvation of a person who had the courage to admit they were voting for John Kerry.
God is not a Republican, He is not even an American.
The problem is invovlement in politcs - the OP in this thread was about a thinly veiled political rally held in a church. This is where my problem comes. Churches are not the place for politcal rallies of ANY ilk. They are not the place for partisan politics. If we were to be honest many would doubt the salvation of a person who had the courage to admit they were voting for John Kerry.
God is not a Republican, He is not even an American.
Was God on the pastor's side when they ended their sermons, took off their robes, and had their patriots uniforms on under them, when they took up arms to fight in the Revolutionary War against England? Should these pastor's have only preached the gospel and left the revolution to the secular world outside of the church?
The Galatian
Active Member
A preacher can preach whatever he wants. But if he dabbles in politics from the pulpit, he loses his tax exemption, because tax-exempt organizations are forbidden to engage in politics.
He has the right to organize political rallies in his sanctuary, if he wants. He just can't get a handout from tax money to do it.
And that's how it should be.
He has the right to organize political rallies in his sanctuary, if he wants. He just can't get a handout from tax money to do it.
And that's how it should be.
NaasPreacher (C4K)
Well-Known Member
It all depends on whether the standard is a history book or the scriptures.
2Ti 2:3,4 "Thou therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ. No man that warreth entangleth himself with the affairs of [this] life; that he may please him who hath chosen him to be a soldier."
2Ti 2:3,4 "Thou therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ. No man that warreth entangleth himself with the affairs of [this] life; that he may please him who hath chosen him to be a soldier."
NaasPreacher (C4K)
Well-Known Member
Exactly, the state hs no requirement to finance political rallies under the guise of churches being tax exempt.
NaasPreacher (C4K)
Well-Known Member
Moderator note:
I am as guilty as anyone of changing the topic of this thread.
Perhaps we should allow this thread to discuss the tax exempt issue and move our discussion of church and politcs to this older thread which is specifically on that topic.
http://www.baptistboard.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi/topic/28/2737.html?
I am as guilty as anyone of changing the topic of this thread.
Perhaps we should allow this thread to discuss the tax exempt issue and move our discussion of church and politcs to this older thread which is specifically on that topic.
http://www.baptistboard.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi/topic/28/2737.html?