Pastoral Qualification Quandary ??

[Bro. Curtis]

I do believe the subject can be discussed respectfully.

1Timothy 3:5 tells us why a divorced man cannot pastor a church.

I don't believe Paul to be a bishop, rather a missionary. I don't see him holding any office in any church.

 

[Tom Butler]

This thread is helping me a great deal, because I'm in the process of re-visiting my position on this matter. Here's where I am at the moment, with no guarantee I'll be there tomorrow:

Divorce does not disqualify a man from the pastorate, if he not the offending party. Nor does it disqualify a man from preaching, although it usually winds up that way.

Marrying again, however, does present me with a problem I'm not locked in, though, and welcome any views to the contrary.

 

[Pastor Larry]

In short, there are no qualification for the spiritual gift of pastor and teacher, while there is a whole 'laundry list' of qualification for the office of bishop/elder.

While that sounds noble, "pastoring" is the job of the elder along with "overseeing" (Acts 20:28; 1 Peter 5:1-4). Therefore, the qualifications for elder are qualifications for pastoring.

Now, pastoring in a generic sense can be done by anyone, but the NT church has the office an elder/overseer/pastor. The qualifications for one are the qualifications for all.

So I agree that we should go by what the Bible says.

 

[Tom Bryant]

1 Timothy 3:4 - He must be one who manages his own household well, keeping his children under control with all dignity 5 (but if a man does not know how to manage his own household, how will he take care of the church of God?),

I don't think that his divorce makes him the husband of more than 1 wife... but it was apparent that during his time as the pastor his own household wasn't in order.

I think we sometimes determine our position on issues based on anecdotal evidence rather than the Word of God.

 

[sag38]

Just because a man's wife left him doesn't necessarily mean that he did not manage his house well. He may very well have managed by the book. But, a rebelliouis or unbelieving wife is not going to submit to her husband's leadership no matter how loving and Biblical he may be.

 

[Tom Bryant]

Just because a man's wife left him doesn't necessarily mean that he did not manage his house well. He may very well have managed by the book. But, a rebelliouis or unbelieving wife is not going to submit to her husband's leadership no matter how loving and Biblical he may be.

You may be right, but wouldn't it show that he needs to take care of his own family as an example to the flock? It shows that there are some issues in the family. I am afraid that this kind of reasoning would lead to a pastor say my children aren't saved so I am exempt from being keeping my children under control with all dignity. We open ourselves up to lots of exemptions and caveats to the Scriptural guidelines.

I feel for the man. I was on staff with a pastor who had much the same kind of situation. It breaks my heart.

 

[sag38]

Assume I had two resumes before me. Both are equally gifted. Both preach well. Both are good leaders. Yet, one is divorced and other isn't. I hate to say it but the divorced guy's resume is going into file 13. And, while the divorced guy may be qualified because he was divorced before he was a Christian or his wife was an adulterer, I'm still going to go with the other. It avoids having to get into a fight with the hard liners. It avoids having to do a detailed analysis as to why the guy is divorced in the first place. There's a lot of baggage with divorce. If I can help it, and the pool of qualified potential pastors without divorce is still available, I will avoid the divorcees. :tear:

 

[Revmitchell]

The term "He must manage his own household well" is clearly defined by the following statement "with all dignity keeping his children submissive" It is not an open ended phrase to allow all kinds of considerations in the home.

 

[OldRegular]

Then we shall disqualify the Hezekian pastor.

Cheers,

Jim

Well said Jim.

Scripture states that a pastor cannot have two wives. If a man is divorced he has no wives.

What about Charles Stanley. He is divorced but still serves as pastor. I say lets all dump on Stanley just to show that we are fair, or unfair, to all!

 

[OldRegular]

I

1Timothy 3:5 tells us why a divorced man cannot pastor a church.

The above Scripture has nothing to do with divorce!

 

[OldRegular]

I don't think that his divorce makes him the husband of more than 1 wife... but it was apparent that during his time as the pastor his own household wasn't in order.

I think we sometimes determine our position on issues based on anecdotal evidence rather than the Word of God.

What is a man supposed to do with a contentious wife, beat her into submission. Scripture state a man is to love his wife as Jesus Christ loves the Church.

Apparently Charles Stanley did not want a divorce but he was divorced.

 

[OldRegular]

Regular that is up for debate. It will open up a can of worms that will eventually lead to this thread being closed.

I thought that was the purpose of this Forum, to open up cans of worms. It is really a very simple question.

 

[Pastor Larry]

The above Scripture has nothing to do with divorce!

Wouldn't divorce at least possibly have to do with managing his household? Just because it isn't specifically mentioned doesn't mean that it is not included in the idea of managing the household.

I guarantee you that bad household management could drive a wife off. It has to at least be considered (whether or not it is applicable to this situation or not).

I don't think it is "dumping on" someone to say they need to step aside.

 

[Tom Bryant]

What is a man supposed to do with a contentious wife, beat her into submission. Scripture state a man is to love his wife as Jesus Christ loves the Church.

Apparently Charles Stanley did not want a divorce but he was divorced.

Did you really read what you wrote? That's the only alternative? Who said anything about beating anyone? Where do you get that idea that I was saying or even remotely suggesting that?

This isn't about personalities, it is about dealing with what the Bible says. Maybe you believe that a pastor whose wife won't come to church and ultimately divorces him is still able to be a lead pastor in a church. I don't think that's what the Bible is saying. I won't answer for you to God... I have enough to answer to for myself.

 

[tinytim]

The guy should not be held accountable for the sins of his wife.

God has not disqualified him permantly.

That being said, he should take some time off for counselling, and refreshing.
So that when he does go back to the ministry, he will be able to minister effectively.

Maybe even be able to minister to all the ones that have the same hurt.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

The above Scripture has nothing to do with divorce!

I disagree. But perhaps you could tell us what it is about, instead of what it isn't about.

Seems like you want to fight, more than discuss.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

Well said Jim.

Scripture states that a pastor cannot have two wives. If a man is divorced he has no wives.

What about Charles Stanley. He is divorced but still serves as pastor. I say lets all dump on Stanley just to show that we are fair, or unfair, to all!

OK, I looked him up. Looks like a typical T.V. preacher, wonderful graphics on his website, probably pulls in a lot of money.

My first question is how much goes to his ex-wife.

I never trusted famous preachers, and I don't trust this one. The gospel is too offensive to be attractive, even to a lot of Christians.

He also seems to ignore the biblical command of autonomy in the N/T.

He seems to say that folks who never hear the Gospel will not face condemnation.

He doesn't mention his divorce in his bio.

He may be solid in a lot of places, but he makes me glad to be IFB, and in a small church.

You asked.

 

[DrRandyGrace]

Assume I had two resumes before me. Both are equally gifted. Both preach well. Both are good leaders. Yet, one is divorced and other isn't. I hate to say it but the divorced guy's resume is going into file 13. And, while the divorced guy may be qualified because he was divorced before he was a Christian or his wife was an adulterer, I'm still going to go with the other. It avoids having to get into a fight with the hard liners. It avoids having to do a detailed analysis as to why the guy is divorced in the first place. There's a lot of baggage with divorce. If I can help it, and the pool of qualified potential pastors without divorce is still available, I will avoid the divorcees. :tear:

This is all too true and very, very sad. If only the potential pastor had shot the offending wife and killed her, he wouldn't be having this problem.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

The Elders of First Baptist Church of Atlanta and the Directors of the In Touch ministry failed to honor God's Word for over seven years that an Elder/Pastor/Teacher, and his wife-if married, should be above reproach, otherwise should be removed from the ministry until such time they are restored. 1 Timothy 3 and Titus 1. This failure brings critical concern over any Elder's actions, choices and testimonies concerning the facts and disposition.
The Elders and congregation failed a Church Discipline process (Matthew 18) to help restore one or both to Biblical fidelity and or declared one or both to be treated as a non-believer, and report such to the Christian Community. In Touch, First Baptist Church of Atlanta only state they stand behind Dr. Stanley and that Dr. Stanley tried all he could to save his marriage (which is not true since Dr. Stanley did not follow God's Word and step down and give full attention to this matter) and that it was Dr. Stanley's wife who filed for divorce.
God's Word in 1 Corinthians 6 gives freedom (though not command) for a believer to go to court against a "non-believer" so to state the wife filed for the divorce is not a clear enough statement and seems used to discredit the wife. I often have cases of abusive husbands who profess to be Christians who think to force their wife to file for divorce for protection is a way to shame her. That is why it's the community of believers responsibility to establish the facts and accurately communicate the truth of God's Word's and application.
They all need our prayers and encouragement to return to God's ways.and in the mean time, I must encourage all to having nothing to do with either of these ministries until there is repentance, confession and fidelity to all of God's Word.
In our reproof of Dr. Stanley and his church, several wrote asking where I get the authority to do such a thing. Ok they weren't that nice or Biblical but I think the sermon [SIZE=-1]REPROOF A CHRISTIAN DUTY by [/SIZE]Charles G. Finney will give us a more Biblical perspective. And let us all remember God's Word..."But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars - their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death." Revelations 21:8 (niv)...


...Stanley told the congregation in 1995, "If my wife divorces me, I would resign immediately." ....

...
I have deep respect and affection for Charles Stanley, and I know that God has used him to reach many people for Christ. I also know full well that, despite their best efforts, Christian marriages sometimes fail, resulting in great pain for those involved. I pray I'm not being self-righteous or too harsh, but I must say what I believe. Sadly, I think Stanley has made a mistake, that he should keep his promise, and that he should resign.
What makes this all the more galling is the justification the church's administrative pastor used in speaking to the congregation. Rev. Gearl Spicer said, "It is my biblical, spiritual, and personal conviction that God has positioned Dr. Stanley in a place where his personal pain has validated his ability to minister to all of us." In other words, Stanley's divorce enables him to be a better shepherd of his flock?
This is pure Clinton-speak. Those of us who criticized the President for quibbling over words to defend his sordid behavior have to be even-handed. And what was wrong for Mr. Clinton is certainly wrong for the pastor of one America's leading churches.....



http://www.peacemakers.net/peace/cstanley.htm

 

[Bro. Curtis]

This is all too true and very, very sad. If only the potential pastor had shot the offending wife and killed her, he wouldn't be having this problem.

Now we're getting just nasty.