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Pat Robinson and Hati
- Thread starter Salty
- Start date
I'm not sure he turned it away but it was Isabel: it was initially headed for Orlando and Pat started crowing that it was judgement on Disney for supporting gays etc etc; then it promptly changed course and headed for Virginia Beach!
You don't know your job if you think Robertson's remarks have any effect on it.
Pat is a nut case !!!
And you can quote me on that.
And you can take it to the bank, too.
And you can quote me on that.
And you can take it to the bank, too.
It still wasn't as devastating as Haiti, Katrina or 9-11. So of course, he would not see that as any kind of "judgment".
The same could be said about JW's. Mormons and Catholics, then. Why don't we let them teach the world their doctrines and call it a day, instead of having to go behind them and clean up the misconceptions of the Bible and the Gospel they leave behind? (Do you onow how many people will use as an argument against US that the Pope is not infallible; as if we follow him?) Robertson is worse, since is is closer to us in the divisions of the Church. (evangelical Protestant).
But of course, I guess because he's 'conservative'; then his teachings can do no wrong, right?
Yes, but a more humble soul might have (with his 'theology') seen Isabel as a bit of a warning shot from the Almighty to shut the heck up already.
What are you talking about?
The carnal mind is at enmity with God, Pat Robertson notwithstanding. The only thing that can receive the things of God is the Spirit of God, and that Spirit is given by God—Pat Robertson, JW's, Mormons and CCMers not withstanding.
When a preacher is sent, he is not sent to make the Gospel palatable to the carnal mind. That isn't a hard job, it's an impossible job.
He is sent to preach the Gospel, and those who have ears to hear will hear and respond.
windcatcher
New Member
At the risk of attack....... I agree with Pat Robertson on this one.
1)If we are being honest...... Pat Robertson did not make a statement that this was God's judgement..... He suggested that it could be and how God's judgement is related to curses brought on by generations of unrepentant behavior.
2)If this act is examined in the understanding of a very secular instrument, an insurance policy, it would be termed "an act of God". The question is then, how does a secular instrument recognize the control of the Creator over his creation yet we who know the scriptures join the pc correct crowd and take offense with a man who might have spoken the truth.
3)Jesus said unless ye repent ye shall all likewise perish. Judgement, in both minor and major events is always a possibility. Sadly, we are so busy holding up the mercy, grace, and love of God.... we have begun to deny or fail to teach of his strength in judgement. Unless ye repent ye shall all likewise perish. How often is it possible that God's judgement occurs and yet we who know the scriptures and both the mercy and the judgement of God fail to teach the later and make our own excuses which prevents the message of judgement from being considered by those who don't respect God or know his power nor his holiness?
4)Already on this BB.... either in this thread or another, some have acknowledged that the 'pact with the devil' .... whether fact or story, is still being told today to tourist. As such, it is still giving the devil the credit for their liberation from the French. If such a pact was made.... that was over 200years ago: Considering the repeated missionary outreach and outreach which has occurred to bring the gospel to this country........ Hasn't God been merciful in his patience for over 200 years to ignore the pact and send messagers with the gospel that some might be saved? However, Hati's own leadership has declared voodoo as the national religion!
What lesson does this hold for us..... if we totally ignore the possibility of God's judgement? The Bible teaches that as the end of time nears, there will be more and more signs.... both in the heavens and in the earth..... signs which the people will ignore and fail to heed and turn and repent. Why? No doubt it will be because the people have been dumbed down and indoctrinated to doubt the existance of God, to deny sin, and to not beleive or accept that the other side of God's love is God's judgement. Without recognizing the reality of judgement man will not recognize the need of salvation..... nor will he be moved to repentance though God sends his judgement in increasing frequency.
1)If we are being honest...... Pat Robertson did not make a statement that this was God's judgement..... He suggested that it could be and how God's judgement is related to curses brought on by generations of unrepentant behavior.
2)If this act is examined in the understanding of a very secular instrument, an insurance policy, it would be termed "an act of God". The question is then, how does a secular instrument recognize the control of the Creator over his creation yet we who know the scriptures join the pc correct crowd and take offense with a man who might have spoken the truth.
3)Jesus said unless ye repent ye shall all likewise perish. Judgement, in both minor and major events is always a possibility. Sadly, we are so busy holding up the mercy, grace, and love of God.... we have begun to deny or fail to teach of his strength in judgement. Unless ye repent ye shall all likewise perish. How often is it possible that God's judgement occurs and yet we who know the scriptures and both the mercy and the judgement of God fail to teach the later and make our own excuses which prevents the message of judgement from being considered by those who don't respect God or know his power nor his holiness?
4)Already on this BB.... either in this thread or another, some have acknowledged that the 'pact with the devil' .... whether fact or story, is still being told today to tourist. As such, it is still giving the devil the credit for their liberation from the French. If such a pact was made.... that was over 200years ago: Considering the repeated missionary outreach and outreach which has occurred to bring the gospel to this country........ Hasn't God been merciful in his patience for over 200 years to ignore the pact and send messagers with the gospel that some might be saved? However, Hati's own leadership has declared voodoo as the national religion!
What lesson does this hold for us..... if we totally ignore the possibility of God's judgement? The Bible teaches that as the end of time nears, there will be more and more signs.... both in the heavens and in the earth..... signs which the people will ignore and fail to heed and turn and repent. Why? No doubt it will be because the people have been dumbed down and indoctrinated to doubt the existance of God, to deny sin, and to not beleive or accept that the other side of God's love is God's judgement. Without recognizing the reality of judgement man will not recognize the need of salvation..... nor will he be moved to repentance though God sends his judgement in increasing frequency.
So using you're logic, it's like people like Robertson get a pass, because it doesn't matter what image they present of the gospel. In fact, it seems the more unpalatable, the better, right? (But then, the very term "good News" loses its meaning!) Why don't we teach that God demands child sacrifice, then? Those who have ears to hear would still hear. Why don't we go and preach that there is no God, then? those who have ears to hear would still be led to Him somehow through that.
And this is the problem. We take passage like those out of context. Jesus was referring to a specific people in a specific event. We come and apply it to everything that we see happening. Of course, none of this stuff is happening to the interpreter at that point.
Someone pointed out in a discussion elesewhere:
...when something negative happens to them, they then claim it's the devil doing it to them because they've been so successful for God.
So, with some there is no winning. If they decide they don't like your beliefs, or doctrine, then they will judge your life like this:
1. If something negative happens, God is punishing you.
2. If something good happens, the devil is leaving you alone because he has you firmly in his pocket already.
Whereas for themselves, since they know they are right:
1. If something negative happens, the devil has caused it because they've been doing too many good things for God
2. If something good happens, God is pouring on His blessings.
So then since the people are in such ignorance of God, there is no guarantee that they will interpret (recognize) an earthquake as some proof for God. Since these people mix God with voodoo, they will only intepret it in terms of that religious mixture.
And isn't "judgment" now supposed to be after death?
If there were no voodoo or pacts with the devil, or homosexuality, abortion, etc., then would earthquakes, hurricanes and terrorism cease to exist? Would that part of the laws of nature automatically change? (Notice, I did not say if there was no sin in the world; but if there was simply none of the specific sins that supposedly crosses some sort of line and warrants temporal judgment. As if there are "lesser" and "worse" sins. So maybe the Catholics were right on that one!)
Since we must interject our current events into the situation, it is true that principles can carry over, but what we fail to realize is that WE are the ones doing exactly what the people Jesus was warning in the first place were doing: sitting back and pronouncing judgment at someone else's calamity, which of course pre-supposes that they are "worse sinners" than we; and that we must therefore be superior, morally, even to those Jesus was talking to (i.e.; unlike them, we do not have that need to "repent"; so we can freely pronounce judgment, and are safe from it ever coming back on us!). This is why this thinking is not right.
If God were really measuring out temporal judgment for sin (which includes self-righteousness), He would start in the House of God, with those who should know better; not those who know the least!
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Robert Snow
New Member
In the book of Job it was the devil who used natural occurrences to bring about the destruction of Job's property and the death of his children.
Why is it when these things happen, so many are quick to blame God?
Why is it when these things happen, so many are quick to blame God?
windcatcher
New Member
Jesus similarly answered the question thusly:
Luk 13:1 ¶ There were present at that season some that told him of the Galilaeans, whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices.
Luk 13:2 And Jesus answering said unto them, Suppose ye that these Galilaeans were sinners above all the Galilaeans, because they suffered such things?
Luk 13:3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
Luk 13:4 Or those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem?
Luk 13:5 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
Luk 13:6 ¶ He spake also this parable; A certain [man] had a fig tree planted in his vineyard; and he came and sought fruit thereon, and found none.
Luk 13:7 Then said he unto the dresser of his vineyard, Behold, these three years I come seeking fruit on this fig tree, and find none: cut it down; why cumbereth it the ground?
Luk 13:8 And he answering said unto him, Lord, let it alone this year also, till I shall dig about it, and dung [it]:
Luk 13:9 And if it bear fruit, [well]: and if not, [then] after that thou shalt cut it down.
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iow, Jesus did not deny nor confirm whether these were judgements of God. He kept that question open..... but he did not affirm their perception in that day that some were greater sinners than others...... and he did affirm that all sin brings judgement. He then told a parable which speaks to God's patience and love in dealing with a people who refuse to repent.
btw, Pat Robertson has promoted ministries to the people of Hati in the past and is actively supporting Operation Blessing.
Pat Robertson made no absolute statement that this was a judgement: He posed it as a question and references it to a historical event; an event which is still held in esteem to its power, whether true or accurate, by many of the people of Hati today: Its own leaders have declared voodoo as the national religion...... thus they openly reject the Lord God of true salvation, and encourage the demonic possessions of their people and their superstitious practices...... even in the witness of missionaries and native Christians.
The important thing is that ....... we should be careful in declaring the judgement of God.... but not so careful that we totally discount that it does occur. Only God knows for sure what is an act of his judgement. But we DO KNOW that God has repeated warned his people of judgement. We can also know that God does send warning and opportunities for change..... Sodom had its opportunity. Ninevah had its opportunity. The USA has its opportunity. The people in the world have their opportunity. If the church does not preach Judgement and hell.... because the people find it hard to hear..... then the world will not hear..... and the church is inviting God's judgement for its failure to teach the whole gospel.
windcatcher
New Member
Many are suffering. We can pray, give, send or go. There's little else we can do.... but whatever we do... accompany it always with prayer that God will bless and bring forth good fruit.
The Bible speaks of it raining on the just and the unjust alike..... rain being an act of natural occurrence in nature
The Bible doesn't promise that we will be saved from catastrophes or wars on this earth. . It doesn't give us a solid guideline to determine when such terrors are an act of God's judgement or a testing of our faith as permitted to the devil.
The Bible is clear in that God rules over all..... and can veto or permit whatever he chooses. This is the hard teaching which the world uses to blame God who it recognizes not for salvation and trust but for profaning and blame....... because the judgement and fear of God nor is his holiness being taught.
Thank you. Good points.
Brother Robertson has opponents who watch him every day looking for some comment to pounce on, and they can always find something. But his organization has probably done much more than any of his critics to help improve lives around the world, in all sorts of practical ways.
Robertson said on Aug 6, 1998, "I would warn Orlando that you're right in the way of some serious hurricanes, and I don't think I'd be waving those flags in God's face if I were you."
Hurricane Isabel was in 2003.
NaasPreacher (C4K)
Well-Known Member
I am astounded that people feel the right to take it on themselves to decide when God is judging a people.
This is the same mindset that said, 'Who sinned that this man should be blind?'
This is the same mindset that said, 'Who sinned that this man should be blind?'
And I'm just concerned that we are watching every day for some disaster to occur to those we see as "sinners" (including in this country) to prove that we are the good guys, or whatever. That's just how it comes off from people like Robertson, even if they soften it down as a non-absolute statement. (there's something called "insinuation" too). These comments don't have to be watched/looked for. They leap right out!
And Paul says it's possible to do all sorts of things for people, even give your body to be burned, and yet it not be in love.
I realize that is how it comes off to people, and it's something that shouldn't have been said at this time.
Mayor Nagin of New Orleans said much the same thing about hurricanes being a sign that "God is mad at America", and yet very little was ever said about it. At least Pat Robertson has the excuse of being old.
