patriotic evangelism

Thanks RSR - I lost track of this thread.

The Pilgrims (whose loyalty to the King of England! should be duly noted for those seeking to hold them up as an example of patriotic Americans) advocated a kind of theological tyranny that directly produced the baptist advocacy for separation of church and state. TheY are not role models for baptists, or even for Americans who believe in a strict constructionist understanding of the First Amendment.

Joshua

[ November 26, 2002, 12:54 PM: Message edited by: Rev. Joshua ]

 

what are they?

Perhaps - but this is increasingly untrue as the nation state becomes less meaningful. Indeed, in a muti cultural society characterised by transglobal communications, corporation and infrastructures (like the internet) I think it is valid to see the two as distinct.

In the case of western European nations especially patrotism is distinctly different from culture - as we see the laws governing these cultures increasingly coming from without rather than within (ie GATT, EU et al)

What does 'Scottish' or 'English' patrotism even mean anymore? Devotion to what ideals or institutions?

St Andrews day like St.Georges day is simply a celebration - I don't believe that they are celebrations of national identity

I am not denoucing anything - I just have a problem with idea of patrotism as a construct in societies that are increasingly supra-national.

I think we are talking at cross purposes here - I am using patronism in the strict sense (as defined by the dictionary) I am not sure what sense you are using it in.

I agree, wholeheartedly that we must take into account the culture and customs of those that we seek to evangelise - I don't think that we should try and twin patriotism alongside that though.

But that is what patriotism means is it not?

er??? - I am just trying to understand what it is that you mean by patriotism - if my contributions are not welcome then I'll gladly leave you it.

 

I'm all for it. IS there any aspect of our lives that should not include our belief?
As far as holidays, take the fourth of July. We honor our people who helped make and keep us free, and we can use that to point out how we become spiritually free in Christ.
Spiritual freedom and physical freedom are two seperate things, but I thank God for both.
Gina

 

Well, clearly you didn't read my entire post, else you would have seen my link posted which is a Baptist link:

http://www.mainstreambaptists.org/english_separatists.htm

The Mayflower Compact was 1620. The Thomas Painter episode you describe was 1644, clearly 24 years later. Look how much things in America have changed in 2002 from 24 years ago.

Oh well, with all the revisionist history compilation taking place in recent years, in another 20 years, it won't be the Pilgrims who founded this country at all, it will be the Muslims or French or the Chinese!

Well, think I'll go put on my kilt now & perhaps have some potatoes for supper, being that I'm part Scottish & Irish. Nothing sweeter than Amazing Grace played on bagpipes.

 

with all the revisionist history compilation taking place in recent years...

Not to diminish your point, but there's always some revisionist history that goes on.

For example, Paul Revere saying 'the British are coming'? Nope, it didn't happen. The colonists thought of themselves as british, so it wouldn't have made any sense. What he would have said was 'the regulars are coming' (the King's soldiers were known as 'regulars'). But this also sounds less romantic.

George Washington chopping down the cherry tree? Nope.

Columbus and the New World? While it's true that he discovered the New World (he landed on what is now Puerto Rico), he did not discover the mainland. That would be Amerigo Vespucci, which is why it's called America. Good thing, too. We'd might all be known as Vespuccians.

 

Yep! There is no King but Jesus!

Sorry to hijack your thread, but it drives me nuts when people try to take God out of American History!

[ November 27, 2002, 08:17 AM: Message edited by: SheEagle911 ]