Paul's Election

By the way, this is only my understanding of the text. If I'm wrong I don't mind being shown otherwise and will go away and study it some more.

 

The context does speak on a personal level, and must needs be taken in that way. The Gentiles are not considered "God's people" as Israel was, and therefore to assume that Paul was here making a distinction between the Nation Israel and the Gentiles as "God's people", is, in my opinion, incorrect. What he is doing here is warning all those who are believers from Gentiles, that, if we do not remain in the faith, then the same that happened in the Old Testament, can and will happen to us. This has to be on a personal level

 

God calls all men to repentance and faith. God does not force man to come or all would come, for as Daniel implies who is more powerful than God? If you do not think that God CAN save all mankind then you fail to remember that God allowed sin to enter the world through mankind, He could have prevented it, but instead allowed it. God was not surprised that Adam sinned! He Knew from before the foundation of the world that mankind would sin, because he had established his Lamb of God which taketh away the sins of the world from before the foundation of the world! Through HIS OWN son, in the form of man, God took away the penalty for sin FROM ALL mankind, so that Whosoever believeth in Him should not perish because of sin but should have everlasting life. Faith in God the Son is the only requirement levied on man for everlasting life, and anyone out or ALL who believes, receives everlasting life through faith.
Was that supposed to be a trick question?

Who is big enough to stop God from doing what God wants to do? I know of no one!

I have NEVER said that God needs our help with anything. He was self-sufficient long before he created man and he remains self sufficient throughout eternity. God has not asked man to help him out! He has asked man to be obedient. He does not make man obedient, but he demands it from us! He does not make man love him, but demands it from us. He does not make man merciful to one another, but he demands it of us. He does not make man faithful to him, but he demands that we have faith in him!

God established the requirements for man's salvation, he set the table for the meal, supplied the lamb, and the time of Grace whereby man can come and partake of the lamb of God and Live. He does not force anyone to do so!

If you haven't got the time then perhaps I'll not waste what you do have. I will not speak to verses 23 thru 24 as a stand alone scripture, and based on your time constraints you would not read what I post on the whole of Romans 9.

 

Thanks for your take on it Icthus.
Wes I will definetely read what you have to say on Romans 9. What I mean't was that I hadn't read all of your posts ever, so dont't know your take on everything. By all means post your take on Romans 9.

 

Specifics please!

 

To add, the distinction I was making was between the nation of Israel as a whole and the special remnant of believeing Jews that God had set aside.

 

All of the saved are chosen by God. He makes the decision. But the question is why does He make His decision, and on what basis?

Calvinists say "I don't Know" or "For no either real or apparent reason". A wholly capricious choice.

Folks though who consider the whole of Scripture site Isa. 66:2 and Ps. 34:18, with the opposite being John 12:48 as reasons for His choice.

That does not preclude a choice just for a reason of service that might suit Him outside of those verses.

 

I'm not so sure this squares with scriptures, unless you are agreeing that "It is the Father's will that none should perish". God Has given his testimony about His son, so that Whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. That does not sound to me like God choosing, that sounds like "whosoever" doing the choosing by believing God's testimony.

God established, that Faith in God would be the criteria by which man is saved, He did that by establishing "the lamb of God who taketh away the sin of the world", from the foundation of the world.

I've established that the decision is faith or no faith!

I've established that God provides the choices, but man does the choosing!

I've established that God does not choose what he's given over to man to choose!

 

Can you give me one quote from a known Calvinist who says God elected us for "no either real or apparent reason?" Or one who says His choice was for a "wholly capricious" reason?

Thank you. </font>[/QUOTE]Better yet, why don't you answer the question? Why does God elect the elect?

And I have heard hundreds of Calvinists answer "I don't know, but few have the courage of their convictions to to give the other answer.

It's like when they say, "God chooses the elect for Heaven, but He doesn't choose the lost for Hell."