Pelagianism

[evangelist6589]

My point is the the GOSPEL is a work of the Holy Spirit, so to suggest there needs to be an additional working of the Holy Spirit for a man to believe the GOSPEL seems redundant at best.

Are you implying that man has the power in himself to turn from sin without divine sovereignty?

 

[Skandelon]

Are you implying that man has the power in himself to turn from sin without divine sovereignty?

You will need to define what you mean by 'power in himself.' Would you consider someone who is confronted by the powerful, Holy Spirit inspired Gospel appeal to trust in the righteousness of someone else for his salvation as having power in himself?

You will also need to define what you mean by 'without divine sovereignty.' Is God means of sending the Holy Spirit inspired gospel appeal for reconciliation into all the world a work of divine sovereignty? And do you believe sovereignty is better illustrated as God playing both sides of the chess board to ensure victory, or as God being so wise, knowing and powerful that he can soundly defeat any autonomous opponent who comes against Him?

 

[convicted1]

Eph 2:8-10 says that Grace is not dependent on myself. Do you not believe this? Yes Grace is opposed to those that think they earn Gods favor by their efforts. Like those that dress up to church everyweek to make an impression on God.

Grace has everly been with God, seeing that Noah found it in the sight of God. However, Grace was finalized from the cross to the tomb and His ascension.

 

[quantumfaith]

This would settle a lot of arguments wouldn't it? A men
MB

MB, not so sure it would. Are we not as frail and prone to error as the expositors of doctrine that each of us read and relish in? We should (IMO) humbly recognize that there are, and always will be many questions and tensions that we simply will never resolve in our present estate.

 

[quantumfaith]

Do you read books? Or are you one of those types that says "I do not read books I only read the Bible?" A author may not directly say that, but by what he writes I know exactly what he believes, even if he does not directly claim something. No one deceived will directly admit it.

Some books

Conversational Evangelism
One heartbeat away

Norm Geisler and Mark Cahill are Arminian and who think that human efforts, methods, evidences, and such are what brings people to salvation. They do not believe in the sovereignty of God in salvation.

Evangelist, I think you are casting an extremely wide net here. I don't know Mark Cahill, but I have read some of Geisler, no where in anything I have read do I find him questioning God's soveriegnty. Now, he may cast questions and doubts as to HOW YOU ( and others) view that sovereignty.

 

[convicted1]

God has chosen the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe. That's how salvation works. We preach, and those who believe are saved, and those who don't shall be damned.

Also, God has chosen the Gospel as His appeal to lost mankind.

 

[Skandelon]

Here is the bottom line when it comes to the issue of Pelagianism:

If you affirm that the Gospel IS a powerful work of the Holy Spirit then YOU can't believe that someone who believes the Gospel is doing so apart from a powerful work of the Holy Spirit, can you???????????

How does one go about responding to a powerful appeal of God without being affected by the power of that appeal? They cannot. Thus if one accepts it then they certainly didn't do so apart from it's power and if they reject it they certainly didn't do so because anything was lacking in the power of the gospel appeal. Am I right? If not, show me my error????

 

[Don]

No. They are similar however.

In what way(s)?

 

[evangelist6589]

Here is the bottom line when it comes to the issue of Pelagianism:

If you affirm that the Gospel IS a powerful work of the Holy Spirit then YOU can't believe that someone who believes the Gospel is doing so apart from a powerful work of the Holy Spirit, can you???????????

How does one go about responding to a powerful appeal of God without being affected by the power of that appeal? They cannot. Thus if one accepts it then they certainly didn't do so apart from it's power and if they reject it they certainly didn't do so because anything was lacking in the power of the gospel appeal. Am I right? If not, show me my error????

It also may be possible that I may not fully understand how it all works. Does the Gospel According to Jesus, or God is the Gospel explain this fully?

 

[Skandelon]

It also may be possible that I may not fully understand how it all works. Does the Gospel According to Jesus, or God is the Gospel explain this fully?

I am not sure what you are asking. The bible does teach that the gospel is the power of God unto salvation (Rm 1:16) and I believe there is enough evidence to suggest that the gospel appeal enables the individual to respond to it, after all; why else would they be held response-able if they are not able-to-respond?

 

[preachinjesus]

No. They are similar however.

Anyone who conflates Pelagianism with Arminianism demonstrates that they understand neither.

Please read up on both before making such erroneous claims.:thumbsup:

 

[evangelist6589]

Anyone who conflates Pelagianism with Arminianism demonstrates that they understand neither.

Please read up on both before making such erroneous claims.:thumbsup:

Yes it may be possible I have forgotten some of the material I learned in seminary. I have Ericksons Systematic theology. Does it explain?

 

[preachinjesus]

Yes it may be possible I have forgotten some of the material I learned in seminary. I have Ericksons Systematic theology. Does it explain?

Well buddy, I would encourage you to read deeply on major issues before making terrible accusatory statements.

Just start reading and I'm sure you'll start finding the information you need.

 

[evangelist6589]

Well buddy, I would encourage you to read deeply on major issues before making terrible accusatory statements.

Just start reading and I'm sure you'll start finding the information you need.

I dont read books. The Bible is all that I need and I am not interested in the opinions of "men."

 

[preachinjesus]

I dont read books. The Bible is all that I need and I am not interested in the opinions of "men."

And thus, you're massive misunderstanding of the difference between two theological systems.

BTW, you don't actually read the Bible, you read a man-made translation of the texts we've reconstructed.

 

[Bluefalcon]

Yes it may be possible I have forgotten some of the material I learned in seminary. I have Ericksons Systematic theology. Does it explain?

What seminary did you graduate from?

 

[Bluefalcon]

And thus, you're massive misunderstanding of the difference between two theological systems.

BTW, you don't actually read the Bible, you read a man-made translation of the texts we've reconstructed.

Not if he's reading the Kay-Jay-Vee.


Just kidding.

 

[Herald]

Hey, here is a thought. Study the Bible for yourself, follow after the doctrines of God and quit following after the doctrines of men. That ends all the discussion about who follows who and what kind of influence any of them had.

Then what need is there for pastors, Bible colleges, seminaries et. al? After all, would not their teachings be doctrines of men?

 

[evangelist6589]

And thus, you're massive misunderstanding of the difference between two theological systems.

BTW, you don't actually read the Bible, you read a man-made translation of the texts we've reconstructed.

I was kidding.

 

[preachinjesus]

I was kidding.

And how was I supposed to know this? You used no emoticons to reflect your desired ironic voice.