Pelvic Thrust Dancing = Worship???

So, since Paul isn't here to clarify, there's no way to apply 1 Cor. 14:40? Are you for real?

 

==What does it say? Now be careful with that question. I did not ask what do we want it to say, or what do we wish it said, rather I asked what does it say? That dance violated every Scriptural principle of modesty in behavior and the very idea that it was done in a church says alot about the downgrade in the modern evangelical church world.

==Again, what does the Word of God say about this? 1Timothy 2:9-10 and 1Peter 3:3-4 says nothing about pride. Rather the verses are talking about adornment (ie...dress). The Apostles also talk about how women should behave. I would be quick to point out that this also would apply to men in our modern world. I know guys who spend just as long as most women getting dressed and doing their hair. As for the ring, I can't answer that question. That is something you should deal with by looking at Scripture and via prayer. There is nothing wrong with having nice things "but" when it crosses the line and ceases being modest then there is a problem. Btw, the dance I saw on that video was anything but modest.

 

Holy Moses.

First, I have to cheerleaders in my current youth group, and had a dance team member in my former. These are chaste, kind young ladies who personify the joy and light of Jesus. I can ony hope a general dismissal of these "types" as "whorish" is an example of typical Fundamentalist ignorance.

Someone has already observed that there were boys dancing along with the girls, that the dance was well-choreographed, and that it was part of a youth event. Ladies and getlement, as much as I hate to be the one to break it to you, if you're over about 24 years old, you have no idea what "is" and "is not" worship for young people. It's too loud because you're too old.

Calm down, I'm too old, too.


I have no illusions that my points will quell the blind condemnation of the "do it my way or you're going to Hell" crowd. Just don't come around my youth with that "high school dance teams are whores" line.

 

With spirituality like this, are you sure you're qualified to judge what is chaste and is not?

 

Aaron, I'm as qualified as you, and perhaps more.

You see, I work with youth, I don't stand outside and above them in judgement.

I go where they go, I don't sit back and whine about their state.

I talk to them, not at them.

Please, go ahead and tell me how evil and reprobate I am for daring to think differently than you.

 

Honey, is that you... Oh, I thought my wife joined the board. She says the same thing...

 

:laugh: Well, since I am a wife of 29 years I've had lot's of experience!

 

1 Timothy 2:9 In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;
10 But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works.

Let's do examine this, are you saying modesty is a clothing line? God forbid, if you look back to this time in Ephesus, you will see the things mentioned were status symbols. Most of society was poor, had no pearls, no costly array, no makeup for their face, no means to acquire these worldly symbols of status. Now mix into the Church some of the well to do who are able to acquire these things and what do you have? You have some in the Church (the haves) looking down their noses at others (the have nots). Now we have separation in God's Church. Now the Apostles could not rightly ignore God had blessed some with more earthly treasure than others so this is what they said to the women who "have".

In like manner also, that the women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with propriety and moderation. NKJV

So scripture could not be saying for women to wear the modesty clothing line because there were women in the Church who didn't have "Sunday go to meeting clothe". Adding verse 10 to this equation you will see scripture is saying Women's standard for dress was to be "characterized" by modesty.

Follow me, just as the men were to show their right attitudes with "holy hands," so the women in the Ephesian congregation were to show their holy attitudes with a outward appearance characterized as modest. This is what verse 10 is trying to tell us. Paul is very much emphasizing that their internal character was far more important than their outward adornment. It is the same principle Jesus used when he said the woman who gave two pennies gave more than the ones who dropped a wad in the plate.

No Sir, I think your interpretation of these versus consider verse 9 without verse 10. You must consider verse 10 if you ever to understand the true essence and meaning of verse 9.

Now associate this to the dancers or even the little drummer boy (still on my mind). They are giving what they have and are giving in in spirit and in truth. They are not offereing it for you to like it, they are sending their praise to the one on high. The fact that man does not like it, makes it all the more fitting for the kingdom.

 

</slaps head> you mean there is a club of them???

 

Ok now. I don't mind being quoted but I do not like being misquoted. Read it again. I said the dances are whorish. Show me one time where I said that all girls on dance teams are whores. Can't do it can you? Maybe you are fortunate in your area to have decent people training the members of dance teams to not flaunt their body parts at the audience but it was not like that when I was in school.

And as for filmproducer...I have stated my opinion. All you want to do is fight and criticize people (mainly fundamentalists it seems) that don't see things as you do. My argument with you is done.

Have a nice day.

 

Well, here's what you said:

The clear indication is that it was the dancing which caused the out of wedlock tomfoolery.

The dancing.

Not poor teaching, poor parental guidance, not a lack of positive peers.

The dancing.

The sheer Fundamentalist vapidity of this concept -- never mind the idea that every experience on Earth mirrors your own -- beggars description.

 

Well your wrong FBC. I have no problem with fundementalists. I even stated many times that you are free to believe what you want. I called you on the adjectives you used to describe what THESE girls, not your high school classmates, were doing. That crossed the line, IMO. Disagree all you want, but there was nothing sexual at all about what THESE girls were doing. Whether you agree that dancing is apropriate for worship, that is up to you, I am not trying to change your mind. If you notice I didn't say anything about it one way or another. You didn't just say that the dancing was wrong, though. You equated what these girls were doing to "ladies of the night". If they were dancing promisculously I would hate to see what actual promiscuous dancing really is.

Also, if you must know, Shelton Smith was my pastor for most of my life. I don't agree with everything he says or does, but I have nothing but utmost respect for him. He serves the Lord the best way he knows how, and it is not often that one can find someone else with as much zeal for seeing lost souls saved. For that matter I have no problems with fundies. We believe differently on a lot of matters, but to each his own. We are all free to interpret the Bible in our ways. I also have no problems with you. I didn't agree with your use of adjectives. I was not purposely attacking you. I'm sorry if you believed I was.

 

If you are a world traveler or have seen cultural dance

If you are a world traveler or have seen cultural dance...then it is obvious the dancers have incorporated some African/Caribbean dance...soooo obvious to me.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sue1D5lwZrk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6O9jyggcAo&mode=related&search=


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Zeamgguh2M


missionaries see this all the time in other cultures...good for youth that incorporate other cultures great dance and movement into their own.


It may not be everyones cup of tea ..important to be educated on what other cultures find joy in doing and have fun in expressing....people on this board are more straight laced than those from the Islands and Africa ..which is fine ..it is just not their cup of tea.

 

Martin,
No problem with your post. Do not get me wrong. My daughter would not have been dancing like that. However, what is over the top is to think that me stopping that would lead to a pure life. That is ridiculous. What leads to a pure heart is being a Christian. This is the main role of a parent: to point their children towards Christ. Teens naturally rebel. If you shove rule after rule down their throats, they will find a way. If my teen had a immoral heart, she would have done whatever with or without the dancing. Its the heart. How many times does it have to be said.

 

Terrible post, just terrible!

 

In a worldly sense, you are correct. From a Christian POV, however, I believe you are wrong. We are bound by Scripture and the leading of the Holy Spirit in how we interpret the Bible. You cannot, as a true Christian, simply interpret scripture any old way you wish.

Joseph Botwinick

 

Well I would have thought that was obvious. Even so there are going to be different interpretations based on how we feel we are led by the Holy Spirit. Take the C/A debate, for example, or the use of Birth control by a Christian, or whether we should drink alcohol or not. People on both sides of these issues feel they are led by the Holy Spirit to believe what they do, and people on both sides of these issues feel they have scripture to back them up.

 

This is a good post, reasonably reflecting some of my observations. Perhaps a little heavy on the terrible. Seems Warren's church is entertainment first, doctrine somewhat down the list of importance.

 

For the which we give praise unto God.