People in church do not love theology

[righteousdude2]

You May Want to Reconsider this?

What's wrong with turning the service over to the Holy Spirit?
Turn the services over to the Lord and stop all the nonsense. :BangHead:

If you [really, truly, completely] turn the service over to the Holy Ghost, you may end up with some of the supernatural manifestations that got me in trouble on another post just last week.

Most pastors turn the service over to the Holy Spirit with "restraints." They may not like what happens if they turned it over, and God's presence came down and a mighty rushing wind blew through the place. I've been in both kinds of services [unfortunately most of the services have been those with limitations], and seen what God can do.

I remember one pastor letting the praise and worship take full control over the service. No preaching, not announcements, no preaching. Just singing [sort of like where John says in Revelations that the throngs and angels surround the throne of God and 24/7 sing "Holy, holy, holy!"], and getting deeper and deeper into the worship side of singing, and the outcome was pheromonal, as more than half the church made their way to the altar by the end of the service. The altars were full, and staff had to call upon lay leaders to assist with praying with the lage number of people who were waiting at the altars. The altar service went on for two hours after the singing ended, and the entire service lasted more than three hours.

For those who worried about the offering, The ushers stood at the back doors and as people filed out in their own time, they dropped their tithes and offerings in the buckets. BTW - It was one of the largest offerings in that church's history.

That is what happens when we turn the service over to the Holy Ghost.

Our pastor allows the spirit to have certain freedoms in church, but if he feels the control over the service slipping beyond what he is comfortable with, he quickly interrupts the Spirit, often leaving those who know what was coming, hungry for more. However, most of those in the pews, don't realize what the pastor did, because they have not yet been in a service where the Holy Ghost was given FREE REIGN.

I love your thoughts, HAMel, I just wish churches knew how to let go and let GOD!

 

[SolaSaint]

While the singles in my class are great to hang around, its obvious they do not have a desire and a passion for theology. I see this trend also in the leader. Nothing I have heard is heretical, its just the lack of a love for theology that bothers me. MacArthur has wanted greatly against this type, but sadly more and more of this type are emerging. If the Gospel According to Jesus would have been resealed in 2013 and not 1988 it would not have caused the division and debate in the church that it did, because relativism is ever more present today than it ever dreamed of being in 1988. I have not left the church as I get good fellowship, but at times I deeply miss a old church of mine where the sunday school teacher, and the people in the class had a deep love for theology.

Have you ever read this from A. W. Tozer?

http://www.crossroad.to/Bible_studies/sermons/devotions/loneliness.htm

 

[Squire Robertsson]

When I hear people don't love theology

• I think it may be because theology is being presented much like the story I heard of the senator in ancient Rome. When asked to pass the honey, he would give a ten minute discourse on the raising of bees in Umbria.
• It maybe also they would enjoy the end results but they really aren't interested in the really fine details. Most classical music lovers aren't really interested in the really technical differences between Mozart and Beethoven.

 

[Iconoclast]

That is what happens when we turn the service over to the Holy Ghost.

Our pastor allows the spirit to have certain freedoms

That is very nice of him....lol


in church, but if he feels the control over the service slipping beyond what he is comfortable with,


he quickly interrupts the Spirit,


often leaving those who know what was coming, hungry for more. However, most of those in the pews, don't realize what the pastor did, because they have not yet been in a service where the Holy Ghost was given FREE REIGN.

He quickly interrupts the spirit....lol I'm sure...lol

 

[righteousdude2]

Yeah! You Seem to Know What I'm Talking About!

He quickly interrupts the spirit....lol I'm sure...lol

It's when someone else [in a group] is talking, and you interrupt their flow of speech. At the moment, it seems kind of rude, but it serves it purpose [by the person doing the interrupting], as it leaves the group wondering what else was about to be said before they were cut off. More times than naught leaving the rest of the group, wondering and confused as to what the person what about to say [kind of like when another person is telling a joke and somone else, jumps in and finishes the punch line before the person telling the joke].

Of course, the person who was interrupted will often lose their train of thought, and even if they don't lose their line of thinking, the brief interruption does change the concentration of those listening, so when the individual finishes what they started before the interruption, what they say or do just isn't the same as it would have been had they not been interrupted.

I think you know what I mean, don't you :smilewinkgrin: a lot of preachers do this [both knowingly and unknowingly], and the end result is a shift or change in the direction of what was about to be said and or happen, within the group! :tear:

 

[saturneptune]

It's when someone else [in a group] is talking, and you interrupt their flow of speech. At the moment, it seems kind of rude, but it serves it purpose [by the person doing the interrupting], as it leaves the group wondering what else was about to be said before they were cut off. More times than naught leaving the rest of the group, wondering and confused as to what the person what about to say [kind of like when another person is telling a joke and somone else, jumps in and finishes the punch line before the person telling the joke].

Of course, the person who was interrupted will often lose their train of thought, and even if they don't lose their line of thinking, the brief interruption does change the concentration of those listening, so when the individual finishes what they started before the interruption, what they say or do just isn't the same as it would have been had they not been interrupted.

I think you know what I mean, don't you :smilewinkgrin: a lot of preachers do this [both knowingly and unknowingly], and the end result is a shift or change in the direction of what was about to be said and or happen, within the group! :tear:

Paul,
Have you ever been talking in a small group of people, wait your turn to say something, then about half a second after you utter your first sound, someone else overrides you and takes over the time. I have been where someone does this repeatedly. We have a natural reflex to stop talking and let the other person continue, but the only way to stop it is to make it a point to continue talking.

 

[righteousdude2]

That is a problem...

Paul,
Have you ever been talking in a small group of people, wait your turn to say something, then about half a second after you utter your first sound, someone else overrides you and takes over the time. I have been where someone does this repeatedly. We have a natural reflex to stop talking and let the other person continue, but the only way to stop it is to make it a point to continue talking.

...I wish I had the answer. I would talk to the group leader [privately] and encourage them to make it a point to stop letting people monopolize or take over the group.

I never had this problem with teens, but I do know what you're talking about with adult groups. As a leader, I always made sure this was held to a minimum. Sometimes, I had to talk privately to the person and tell them they were being rude, and that they needed to be more Christ like when it came to sharing.

Good luck. I understand completely. :thumbs:

 

[Yeshua1]

If you [really, truly, completely] turn the service over to the Holy Ghost, you may end up with some of the supernatural manifestations that got me in trouble on another post just last week.

Most pastors turn the service over to the Holy Spirit with "restraints." They may not like what happens if they turned it over, and God's presence came down and a mighty rushing wind blew through the place. I've been in both kinds of services [unfortunately most of the services have been those with limitations], and seen what God can do.

I remember one pastor letting the praise and worship take full control over the service. No preaching, not announcements, no preaching. Just singing [sort of like where John says in Revelations that the throngs and angels surround the throne of God and 24/7 sing "Holy, holy, holy!"], and getting deeper and deeper into the worship side of singing, and the outcome was pheromonal, as more than half the church made their way to the altar by the end of the service. The altars were full, and staff had to call upon lay leaders to assist with praying with the lage number of people who were waiting at the altars. The altar service went on for two hours after the singing ended, and the entire service lasted more than three hours.

For those who worried about the offering, The ushers stood at the back doors and as people filed out in their own time, they dropped their tithes and offerings in the buckets. BTW - It was one of the largest offerings in that church's history.

That is what happens when we turn the service over to the Holy Ghost.

Our pastor allows the spirit to have certain freedoms in church, but if he feels the control over the service slipping beyond what he is comfortable with, he quickly interrupts the Spirit, often leaving those who know what was coming, hungry for more. However, most of those in the pews, don't realize what the pastor did, because they have not yet been in a service where the Holy Ghost was given FREE REIGN.

I love your thoughts, HAMel, I just wish churches knew how to let go and let GOD!

The Holy Spirit MAINLY/NORMAL works in and thru the scriptures being expounded upon, so IF the pastor is teaching that, the Spirit is indeed "loosed and free!"

 

[Oldtimer]

I agree that most Christians are not turned on by studying theology. Our SBC Bible study literature is light on theology, IMO. Many times the Quarterly gives exerpts of scriptures in the same book rather than studying the book or scripture. It encourages asking the students for: what they think, how they feel, and what experiences they can give. In other words, the book encourages a lot of discussion instead of presenting the theological aspects of the scripture.

I think a part of the disinterest in theology is the literature we study. Or the literature we study is that way because that is what most people want.

Your point bears repeating in this discussion.

When I returned to church, after many years absent, that return included a hunger and a desire best described with Proverbs 2:3-6 and 2 Tim 2:15.

There's been many times that I've left a SS class with a craving for more than what the lessons covered. At this point in my life, I don't need 15 minutes out of 45 devoted to discussion on the Greek translation of a word.

Nor speculations by the SS materials author -- perhaps this... maybe this.... It is thought that .... and other such phrases that build doubt instead of easing it. Often, my perception, right or wrong, is the author is more concerned with establishing his credentials by bringing in rabbits and strawmen into the study of a passage of scripture.

That's just 2 points out of many with what I regard as real failures of "canned" SS & VBS materials being used in the church. Just my opinion folks, for whatever it's worth. There's something wrong, something missing, when the Leader Guide states -- Read this aloud: Ask this question: Ask a member to read verses nn: Say this:

When a newly awakened hunger isn't fed meat, what happens to that hunger? How often do the hunger pains fade away as there always seems to be plenty of milk in the bowl?

 

[Bob Alkire]

• I think it may be because theology is being presented much like the story I heard of the senator in ancient Rome. When asked to pass the honey, he would give a ten minute discourse on the raising of bees in Umbria.
• It maybe also they would enjoy the end results but they really aren't interested in the really fine details. Most classical music lovers aren't really interested in the really technical differences between Mozart and Beethoven.

A lot of truth there, my friend.
I think the pew or average Christian is tired of all the fighting from one camp to another. They know what they believe is correct from there study of Scripture and may disagree with you, but if it is, shall we say orthodox theology, they can live with the difference you have with out a fight. Kind of like the fight between the views of Alexander and Arius over Sabellianism/Modalism, that Arius went way to far to prove Alexandria wrong that he over shot the mark trying to put a beginning to the Son of God. Theologian and academics have been over shooting the mark for years or boring many who listen to them. Keep in mind the early Christians learned from average folks and many of us rural folks learn who Christ was and accepted Him as our Savior from many an uneducated pastor. I believe many are tired of hearing how smart, and how much we need the theologian to understand what God wants us to be.

 

[Yeshua1]

Your point bears repeating in this discussion.

When I returned to church, after many years absent, that return included a hunger and a desire best described with Proverbs 2:3-6 and 2 Tim 2:15.

There's been many times that I've left a SS class with a craving for more than what the lessons covered. At this point in my life, I don't need 15 minutes out of 45 devoted to discussion on the Greek translation of a word.

Nor speculations by the SS materials author -- perhaps this... maybe this.... It is thought that .... and other such phrases that build doubt instead of easing it. Often, my perception, right or wrong, is the author is more concerned with establishing his credentials by bringing in rabbits and strawmen into the study of a passage of scripture.

That's just 2 points out of many with what I regard as real failures of "canned" SS & VBS materials being used in the church. Just my opinion folks, for whatever it's worth. There's something wrong, something missing, when the Leader Guide states -- Read this aloud: Ask this question: Ask a member to read verses nn: Say this:

When a newly awakened hunger isn't fed meat, what happens to that hunger? How often do the hunger pains fade away as there always seems to be plenty of milk in the bowl?

think another big reason is that some who teach/preach theology forget that they also MUST tie it into being applied in a practical sense to daily living!

can learn how these deep and great doctrines of the faith, but how do I live them out in my walk with christ?

 

[nodak]

My experience is just--my experience.

It may or may not apply to anyone else.

I care deeply about theology, love to read and learn and listen and discuss it. I also care deeply about application and love to read and learn and listen and discuss and hopefully do it

More than once I've had the sad experience of trying to get information from a pastor about theology and not been successful. At one point I asked my then pastor for some pointers as I wanted to study an overview of systematic theology. The internet wasn't around then, and I wanted to learn the basic teachings of Calvinism, Arminianism, Dispensationalism, and Wesley/Holiness teachings. Nothing real deep, and basically just a "can you recommend some books?" question for the pastor.

He told me lay people don't need to learn theology, just church doctrine. Well, I went and scrounged and studied on my own thanks to the local library.

And he wasn't my pastor for long because I saw a pattern of indoctrination--just think what I think because I say to think it--rather than really preaching or teaching. He was a basically good guy, really loved his people, but we dumb sheep will stay in pen better if we know that wolves are out there!