People that have called for the Wearing of Masks to Stop COVID-19

[InTheLight]

And neither you nor the articl make any better case for wearing a mask than the one i posted does for not wearing one.

Basically it's a stalemate.

All we know for sure is that Fauci, the CDC, the WHO, and the Surgeon General all said masks were ineffective and not needed before they did. Apparently their original statements were just outright lies.Their credibility on the subject is shot, as far as i'm concerned.

Or maybe we've done studies on masks since March and have learned that masks are effective. The article in JAMA that the CDC quotes said, "There is increasing evidence that cloth face coverings help prevent people who have COVID-19 from spreading the virus to others."

Bottom line is that , for every study or article you can post touting the effective of masks, I can post one that does just the opposite.

OK, here's a list of recent studies on the effectiveness of masks. What have you got for studies?

Recent Studies:

• Rothe C, Schunk M, Sothmann P, et al. Transmission of 2019-nCoV Infection from an Asymptomatic Contact in Germany. The New England journal of medicine. 2020;382(10):970-971. PMID: 32003551external icon
• Zou L, Ruan F, Huang M, et al. SARS-CoV-2 Viral Load in Upper Respiratory Specimens of Infected Patients. The New England journal of medicine. 2020;382(12):1177-1179. PMID: 32074444external icon
• Pan X, Chen D, Xia Y, et al. Asymptomatic cases in a family cluster with SARS-CoV-2 infection. The Lancet Infectious diseases. 2020. PMID: 32087116external icon
• Bai Y, Yao L, Wei T, et al. Presumed Asymptomatic Carrier Transmission of COVID-19. Jama. 2020. PMID: 32083643external icon
• Kimball A HK, Arons M, et al. Asymptomatic and Presymptomatic SARS-CoV-2 Infections in Residents of a Long-Term Care Skilled Nursing Facility — King County, Washington, March 2020. MMWR Morbidity and mortality weekly report. 2020; ePub: 27 March 2020. PMID: 32240128external icon
• Wei WE LZ, Chiew CJ, Yong SE, Toh MP, Lee VJ. Presymptomatic Transmission of SARS-CoV-2 — Singapore, January 23–March 16, 2020. MMWR Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report. 2020;ePub: 1 April 2020. PMID: 32271722external icon
• Li R, Pei S, Chen B, et al. Substantial undocumented infection facilitates the rapid dissemination of novel coronavirus (SARS-CoV2). Science (New York, NY). 2020. PMID: 32179701external icon
• Furukawa NW, Brooks JT, Sobel J. Evidence Supporting Transmission of Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome Coronavirus 2 While Presymptomatic or Asymptomatic [published online ahead of print, 2020 May 4]. Emerg Infect Dis. 2020;26(7):10.3201/eid2607.201595. Link
• Oran DP, Topol Prevalence of Asymptomatic SARS-CoV-2 Infection: A Narrative Review [published online ahead of print, 2020 Jun 3]. Ann Intern Med. 2020;M20-3012. PMID: 32491919external icon
• National Academies of Sciences, Engineering, and Medicine. 2020. Rapid Expert Consultation on the Possibility of Bioaerosol Spread of SARS-CoV-2 for the COVID-19 Pandemic (April 1, 2020). Washington, DC: The National Academies Press. https://doi.org/10.17226/25769external icon.
• Schwartz KL, Murti M, Finkelstein M, et al. Lack of COVID-19 transmission on an international flight. CMAJ. 2020;192(15):E410. PMID: 32392504external icon
• Anfinrud P, Stadnytskyi V, Bax CE, Bax A. Visualizing Speech-Generated Oral Fluid Droplets with Laser Light Scattering. N Engl J Med. 2020 Apr 15. doi:10.1056/NEJMc2007800. PMID: 32294341external icon
• Davies A, Thompson KA, Giri K, Kafatos G, Walker J, Bennett A. Testing the efficacy of homemade masks: would they protect in an influenza pandemic? Disaster Med Public Health Prep. 2013;7(4):413-8. PMID: 24229526external icon
• Konda A, Prakash A, Moss GA, Schmoldt M, Grant GD, Guha S. Aerosol Filtration Efficiency of Common Fabrics Used in Respiratory Cloth Masks. ACS Nano. 2020 Apr 24. PMID: 32329337external icon
• Aydin O, Emon B, Saif MTA. Performance of fabrics for home-made masks against spread of respiratory infection through droplets: a quantitative mechanistic study. medRxiv preprint doi: Performance of Fabrics for Home-Made Masks Against the Spread of Respiratory Infections Through Droplets: A Quantitative Mechanistic Study, posted April 24, 2020.
• Ma QX, Shan H, Zhang HL, Li GM, Yang RM, Chen JM. Potential utilities of mask-wearing and instant hand hygiene for fighting SARS-CoV-2. J Med Virol. 2020. PMID: 32232986external icon
• Leung, N.H.L., Chu, D.K.W., Shiu, E.Y.C. et al.Respiratory virus shedding in exhaled breath and efficacy of face masks. Nat Med. 2020. PMID: 32371934external icon
• Johnson DF, Druce JD, Birch C, Grayson ML. A quantitative assessment of the efficacy of surgical and N95 masks to filter influenza virus in patients with acute influenza infection. Clin Infect Dis. 2009 Jul 15;49(2):275-7. PMID: 19522650external icon
• Green CF, Davidson CS, Panlilio AL, et al. Effectiveness of selected surgical masks in arresting vegetative cells and endospores when worn by simulated contagious patients. Infect Control Hosp Epidemiol. 2012;33(5):487‐494. PMID: 22476275external icon

Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19)

We've been lied to so long and so often about so many things, I no longer believe anything they say.

Maybe it's not lying. Maybe it was simple ignorance.

 

[atpollard]

Has anyone noticed the large number of mask wearers that keep their nose outside of the mask?

It reminded me of affluent white suburbanites marching for the rights of poor urban minorities ... a nice gesture of support, but I wonder if they have a clue about the real issues involved.

 

[RighteousnessTemperance&]

Or maybe we've done studies on masks since March and have learned that masks are effective. The article in JAMA that the CDC quotes said, "There is increasing evidence that cloth face coverings help prevent people who have COVID-19 from spreading the virus to others."...

I think this is the sort of thing people are finding so objectionable:

Although the mechanism of spread of the current novel coronavirus (SARS-CoV-2) is not clearly understood, it is thought that spread can occur through droplets containing virus particles released by infected persons when they sneeze, cough, or speak.​

This introductory statement is from a study (in your list) on the effectiveness of masks, and isn’t even certified peer reviewed. (See “Performance of Fabrics for Home-Made Masks Against the Spread of Respiratory InfectionsThrough Droplets: A Quantitative Mechanistic Study” https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.19.20071779v2.full.pdf.)

 

[InTheLight]

I think this is the sort of thing people are finding so objectionable:

Although the mechanism of spread of the current novel coronavirus (SARS-CoV-2) is not clearly understood, it is thought that spread can occur through droplets containing virus particles released by infected persons when they sneeze, cough, or speak.​

This introductory statement is from a study (in your list) on the effectiveness of masks, and isn’t even certified peer reviewed. (See “Performance of Fabrics for Home-Made Masks Against the Spread of Respiratory InfectionsThrough Droplets: A Quantitative Mechanistic Study” https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.19.20071779v2.full.pdf.)

Yes, well, spreading COVID via droplets containing virus particles is the working theory. It is the method of transmission for similar types of illnesses. Here is the conclusion of the study you cited:

Conclusions
In this study, we asked whether face coverings made from home fabrics can be effective against the dissemination of droplets carrying 100 nm size infectious viruses, such as SARS-CoV-2, and if so, will their droplet blocking efficiency be comparable to that of a commercial medical mask. We studied a diverse set of 11 common household fabrics with varying fiber types and constructions. We quantified the ability of these fabrics to block high velocity droplets similar to those that may be released by sneezing, coughing, or speaking.

We found that all of these fabrics have considerable efficiency at blocking high velocity droplets, even as a single layer. With 2 or 3 layers, even highly permeable fabrics, such as T-shirt cloth, achieve droplet blocking efficiency that is similar to that of a medical mask, while still maintaining comparable breathability.

For low-velocity droplets, we found that blocking efficiency of T-shirt fabric is much higher compared to that for high velocity droplets. A scenario involving low-velocity droplets may arise when a mask user receives droplets released by an infected individual. It thus follows that a 2 or 3-layered home-made mask with most common fabrics may help prevent the dissemination of droplets by infected individuals, and protect healthy individuals from inhaling droplets, with efficiencies similar to that of commercial medical masks.

 

[RighteousnessTemperance&]

Yes, well, spreading COVID via droplets containing virus particles is the working theory. It is the method of transmission for similar types of illnesses. Here is the conclusion of the study you cited:

Conclusions
In this study, we asked whether face coverings made from home fabrics can be effective against the dissemination of droplets carrying 100 nm size infectious viruses, such as SARS-CoV-2, and if so, will their droplet blocking efficiency be comparable to that of a commercial medical mask. We studied a diverse set of 11 common household fabrics with varying fiber types and constructions. We quantified the ability of these fabrics to block high velocity droplets similar to those that may be released by sneezing, coughing, or speaking.

We found that all of these fabrics have considerable efficiency at blocking high velocity droplets, even as a single layer. With 2 or 3 layers, even highly permeable fabrics, such as T-shirt cloth, achieve droplet blocking efficiency that is similar to that of a medical mask, while still maintaining comparable breathability.

For low-velocity droplets, we found that blocking efficiency of T-shirt fabric is much higher compared to that for high velocity droplets. A scenario involving low-velocity droplets may arise when a mask user receives droplets released by an infected individual. It thus follows that a 2 or 3-layered home-made mask with most common fabrics may help prevent the dissemination of droplets by infected individuals, and protect healthy individuals from inhaling droplets, with efficiencies similar to that of commercial medical masks.

Yes, they had an unconfirmed conclusion about fabric favorably compared to medical masks. But the article is most indefinite about effectiveness for the purpose--dealing with COVID-19.

And I’m not opposed to masks. I have my own reasons for exercising whatever caution I deem advisable, as well as following whatever mandates are in place wherever I am.

The point is that these people seem unable to make a bona fide discovery to save their lives, or ours.

Meanwhile, all of the statements and retractions and corrections are playing havoc with people’s lives and livelihoods, and unsurprisingly engender extreme skepticism. Their "science" is too volatile to be useful. It stinks of politics and manipulation.

 

[Deacon]

Has anyone noticed the large number of mask wearers that keep their nose outside of the mask?

It reminded me of affluent white suburbanites marching for the rights of poor urban minorities ... a nice gesture of support, but I wonder if they have a clue about the real issues involved.

Dr. Fauci isn’t a trained spokesperson, he doesn’t communicate his message very well. He has contradicted himself quite a bit.

And it’s true, the general public is not educated in how to properly wear a mask. Because of this wearing a mask wearing is less than effective.

I see the nose out in a large percentage of mask wearers.
Then there are the beard-covers-only wearers, those that wear the mask on their chin.
Here’s someone wearing a mask as a skullcap (granted it’s outside).


Some lady today wore an n95 mask into our office without securing the nose, a total waste of a good mask... it wouldn’t have protected her or us.

Rob

 

[RighteousnessTemperance&]

Dr. Fauci isn’t a trained spokesperson, he doesn’t communicate his message very well. He has contradicted himself quite a bit.

And it’s true, the general public is not educated in how to properly wear a mask. Because of this wearing a mask wearing is less than effective.

I see the nose out in a large percentage of mask wearers.
Then there are the beard-covers-only wearers, those that wear the mask on their chin.
Here’s someone wearing a mask as a skullcap (granted it’s outside).
View attachment 4083

Some lady today wore an n95 mask into our office without securing the nose, a total waste of a good mask... it wouldn’t have protected her or us.

Rob

Yeah, if it weren’t for people, the virus probably wouldn’t spread as much or infect as many.

 

[Calminian]

More confusion. I saw hundreds of masks today, all kinds of different materials. Are they all washed and fresh? Are people careful to keep their fingers off them?

The million dollar questions for me, can improperly used masks spread the virus? Make things worse in some areas?


Holland’s Top Scientists Say There’s No Evidence Face Masks Work — And May Actually Cause More Harm

 

[Calminian]

...I see the nose out in a large percentage of mask wearers.
Then there are the beard-covers-only wearers, those that wear the mask on their chin.....

LOL. I call them below-the-nosers and chinners.

Then again, I'm slow to judge. Some people really do struggle with breathing.

 

[carpro]

Maybe it's not lying. Maybe it was simple ignorance.

That would be nice. It's just not true.

Fauci, WHO, Surgeon general, and the CDC all lied deliberately about masks. According to their very own statements about why they are so effective now, but weren't earlier. They are the experts guiding policy. If they are ignorant in their own specialty, who needs 'em.