Hello to All
This thread has gotten a little off track, but I still encourage all to spend some time in this study.
Some will be shocked to hear this, but the Book of Hebrews puts the question of "eternal salvation" to rest.
That one can lose their salvation becomes a moot question when one understands how salvation was accomplished.
By Christ, and Christ alone.
The Captain of our salvation was made complete through sufferings, which include the fulfillment of the scripture pertaining to Messiah, both in His Life (He was bruised) and in His death (He died and rose again according to the scriptures).
To assume that His "perfection" was that He lived a good life, and thus became acceptable to God, able to die the needful death, is to misunderstand this concept altogether.
God was well-pleased with His Son before He died, in fact before He was manifest in the flesh.
We have looked at completion in 2:10 and 5:9, and discussed it not to its full extent, but in order to keep things going, I'll present the next verse.
In this passage we find our key words in in close proximity with each other, and it is my opinion that they are directly tied together.
Consider:
Hebrews 5:10-6:1 (King James Version)
10Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec.
11Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing.
12For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.
13For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.
14But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil. Hebrews 6
1Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
Now, for the time being, I have stopped us at 6:1.
Don't worry, we aren't leaving anything out, we are just examining these verses for now (I predict several pages of disagreement here).
In v. 14 of ch. 5, we find:
5046. teleios tel'-i-os from 5056; complete (in various applications of labor, growth, mental and moral character, etc.); neuter (as noun, with 3588) completeness:--of full age, man, perfect.
For now, I will just say that some translations have "mature", and in one sense, this is what our writer is speaking of.
But what is often forgotten (or just never considered), is that it is saying that "solid food belongs to those of full age/those who are complete."
Those being addressed are not.
In fact, they are lazy, infantile, and ignorant of even the Old Testament ABC teachings about Christ.
But they're saved, right?
I believe some of them are, but I also believe some are not.
It is automatically assumed that this passage is speaking about born-again Christians only.
But I believe by understanding the concept of perfection found in Hebrews will clear this up.
I will ask this, if they don't understand the ABCs of O.T. teaching concerning Christ, how can we expect them to understand JESUS' teaching about Himself?
Or, if they are lazy to hear (dull of hearing), unable to teach others of Christ (and He is the primary reason for this epistle), need to be taught the basics of the Word of God concerning Christ...are they saved?
Now keep in mind, our writer (ultimately the Holy Spirit), turns aside from his current topic of Christ's Priesthood, to rebuke these people.
It is no different than the modern Pastor preaching information that he knows some in the congregation is in need of hearing.
In 5:14, I propose that those that are of full age/complete are those that are saved/born-again, and that they are contrasted with the ones who are not.
It seems clear, and it is followed by the exhortation in 6:1 to ...go on to perfection/completion, and leave behind the ABCs of Christ.
Your thoughts?
This thread has gotten a little off track, but I still encourage all to spend some time in this study.
Some will be shocked to hear this, but the Book of Hebrews puts the question of "eternal salvation" to rest.
That one can lose their salvation becomes a moot question when one understands how salvation was accomplished.
By Christ, and Christ alone.
The Captain of our salvation was made complete through sufferings, which include the fulfillment of the scripture pertaining to Messiah, both in His Life (He was bruised) and in His death (He died and rose again according to the scriptures).
To assume that His "perfection" was that He lived a good life, and thus became acceptable to God, able to die the needful death, is to misunderstand this concept altogether.
God was well-pleased with His Son before He died, in fact before He was manifest in the flesh.
We have looked at completion in 2:10 and 5:9, and discussed it not to its full extent, but in order to keep things going, I'll present the next verse.
In this passage we find our key words in in close proximity with each other, and it is my opinion that they are directly tied together.
Consider:
Hebrews 5:10-6:1 (King James Version)
10Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec.
11Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing.
12For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.
13For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.
14But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil. Hebrews 6
1Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
Now, for the time being, I have stopped us at 6:1.
Don't worry, we aren't leaving anything out, we are just examining these verses for now (I predict several pages of disagreement here).
In v. 14 of ch. 5, we find:
5046. teleios tel'-i-os from 5056; complete (in various applications of labor, growth, mental and moral character, etc.); neuter (as noun, with 3588) completeness:--of full age, man, perfect.
For now, I will just say that some translations have "mature", and in one sense, this is what our writer is speaking of.
But what is often forgotten (or just never considered), is that it is saying that "solid food belongs to those of full age/those who are complete."
Those being addressed are not.
In fact, they are lazy, infantile, and ignorant of even the Old Testament ABC teachings about Christ.
But they're saved, right?
I believe some of them are, but I also believe some are not.
It is automatically assumed that this passage is speaking about born-again Christians only.
But I believe by understanding the concept of perfection found in Hebrews will clear this up.
I will ask this, if they don't understand the ABCs of O.T. teaching concerning Christ, how can we expect them to understand JESUS' teaching about Himself?
Or, if they are lazy to hear (dull of hearing), unable to teach others of Christ (and He is the primary reason for this epistle), need to be taught the basics of the Word of God concerning Christ...are they saved?
Now keep in mind, our writer (ultimately the Holy Spirit), turns aside from his current topic of Christ's Priesthood, to rebuke these people.
It is no different than the modern Pastor preaching information that he knows some in the congregation is in need of hearing.
In 5:14, I propose that those that are of full age/complete are those that are saved/born-again, and that they are contrasted with the ones who are not.
It seems clear, and it is followed by the exhortation in 6:1 to ...go on to perfection/completion, and leave behind the ABCs of Christ.
Your thoughts?