Perhaps one of you could explain........

[cwclugston]

UnashamedYouth, I am not as offended by clothing, as long as it is not too revealing; for instance, if shorts are worn, no butt cheeks.

It is the body piercing, spiked or colored hair, and men wearing ear rings that I see some teens wearing to church that I find inappropriate. It really is getting out of control.

Bill C.

 

[cwclugston]

JonathanDT, when you say your prayers tonight before you go to bed, be sure and thank God that I'm not your dad; because if I were, I'd get out the board and you wouldn't sit down for a week.

Bill C.

 

[JonathanDT]

Bill, believe me, if I ever got an earring, I wouldn't be sitting down for much longer then a week.

My appearance is very conservative. I have no piercings, tattoos, or colored hair. I spike my hair a little, but nothing extreme considering I have a military style haircut. I don't wear any spiked jewelry, I'll occasionally wear a silver necklace. I wear mostly cargo pants and jeans, t-shirts and and polo shirts and stuff. I'm not someone who you would mistake for a punk, maybe a prep(much as it pains me to say it), but not a punk.

Unashamed, unless you only have one woman in the church, there's no such thing as an appropriate color. My sister is just like you, she hates dresses with a vengeance. It's one of the reasons she didn't go to Bob Jones University. Well, that, and I would have teased her relentlessly about the "pink and blue sidewalks."

 

[cwclugston]

JonathanDT writes:

My appearance is very conservative. I have no piercings, tattoos, or colored hair. I spike my hair a little, but nothing extreme considering I have a military style haircut. I don't wear any spiked jewelry, I'll occasionally wear a silver necklace. I wear mostly cargo pants and jeans, t-shirts and and polo shirts and stuff. I'm not someone who you would mistake for a punk, maybe a prep(much as it pains me to say it), but not a punk.

I'm proud of you, son. Now, let's work on that attitude of yours. It's your arguementativeness that I didn't like.

I'd like for all the youth on this board to think about something. Is it possible that, when someone older sees the problem we've been expressing our opinions about, adults like me care about and want God's best for you? Don't you people want to glorfy God in your appearance? It isn't now, nor was it ever, my intention to be judgemental. My reasons for calling you to account on this is that I care; and I'm sure that others in your churches feel the same way I do.

Keep walkin' with the Savior.

Bill C.

[ March 21, 2003, 04:02 PM: Message edited by: cwclugston ]

 

[MissAbbyIFBaptist]

Oh Blush, no dear, When I said at our church the young people dressed right, I didn't mean we didn't welcome visitors. We've had a little of everything come through in our church. We've always welcomed them. I wou;ldn't have cared what the kids had worn had they ever visited, I would just have wanted them to hear the message. {Which was on the need for salvation, and basicaly that sin takes you further than you want to go.}
I just ahppen to believe that when a person gets saved, there will be a change.
Usualy at school, I don't even have to approach people. They'll ask me what is it I believe, or why I'm diffrent. I always make it clear that I don't hold others to the standards I keep. I mean how realistic would it be for me to hold someone who's lost to something a saved person might hold to. I do my best to wittness to them, ans show them the way of salvation. But I can't expect to see them have a change, unless Christ takes up residence in their hearts.
But my point is, I would never shun someone in church, or anywere because they didn't dress apropretly. I don't turn someone away at school, because they look like a punk. Granted when I see four or five guys walking down the hall with their blue and purple hair, and a few earrings in their ears, and thier pants so low there about to fall off, and they sneer at me, No, I can't say as I feel to pleasent right then. RUN! Would be the first thought that enters my mind. But at the same time, I wonder if they know the One who saves from sin.
And I know sometimes, when I type something, I may mean it one way, but someone can take it completly our of context. THat's the down fall of not being able to see each other's faces, or hear our voices. I could come off as ticked off, but truly mean it niclely, or vice verca. When I read what someone says here, I always try to take it in the nicest way possible. So blush, I know what you said to me wasn't mean rudly. I also know sometiems I do have trouble with making myself clear, so I'm sure people may not always know what I mean. I guess that comes with being dense in the mind area!

Oh well! Do ya'll think they's any hope for me? I'm truely sorry you misunderstood me. Next time I'll try to make some sense. I really will.
~Abby

 

[UnashamedYouth]

I think when it comes to argumentiveness... you have to consider how you yourself are coming off... adult or not we teens don't like to be talked down to, nor should we be. My youth pastor(and dad... I love and hate my job of ypk) makes sure that he doesn't treat us like we should still be running around in the nursery. Our opinions are heard and as such we do get defensive.

I was rude and for that I apologize, and I agree that modest dress is the most important. However I have friends that do have piercings... and they dye their hair(granted it's a normal color... from brunette to blonde... etc) and there are some that before they were christians went and got themselves a tattoo... tattoo removle is expensive and painful... so if it shows... it shows...

I actually am not a fan of body art... so I understand where you're coming from... but I don't think youth are being disrespectful... a lot just don't understand the feelings of the older church members... maybe instead of a lecture... maybe you can just talk to them about it and ask them "why" and get into a discussion(NOT A LECTURE, THOSE THINGS DRIVE US ALL NUTS! LOL) with them about how You think God sees it. They may or may not come to church dressed/groomed differently... but lecturing does nothing but make us get defensive, and in most cases they rebel further.

 

[cwclugston]

UnashamedYouth, I do not mean to be coming across as "lecturing." I am at my wits end with this issue and I am just plain frustrated. Add to that the fact that it is not considered appropriate for me as a non-parent to chastise someone else's kids. I am expected when I come to church and see teens with the body piercing and the like to just grin and bear it and I am tired of holding it all in.

Consider this. If I popped open a can of beer in our church's dining room, how far do you think I'd get before my pastor or one of my church's deacons chewed me out? You better believe that I'd get a lecture for that! It is the same way when I see teens, who should be old enough to know better, coming to church looking like punks.
You teens want to be treated like adults so why don't you start acting like adults?

Bill C.

 

[UnashamedYouth]

have you SEEN most adults these days? we're the tame ones!

 

[JonathanDT]

Unashamed, that last post makes it soo obvious your a PK.

Originally posted by cwclugston:
UnashamedYouth, I do not mean to be coming across as "lecturing." I am at my wits end with this issue and I am just plain frustrated. Add to that the fact that it is not considered appropriate for me as a non-parent to chastise someone else's kids. I am expected when I come to church and see teens with the body piercing and the like to just grin and bear it and I am tired of holding it all in.

This is one of those things that since it really doesn't matter, your just gonna have to keep "grinning and bearing it." I really don't think there is anything you can do about it. If it's important to God, he'll convict them. And if he does and they don't listen, then there are bigger problems then clothing.

Consider this. If I popped open a can of beer in our church's dining room, how far do you think I'd get before my pastor or one of my church's deacons chewed me out? You better believe that I'd get a lecture for that! It is the same way when I see teens, who should be old enough to know better, coming to church looking like punks.

And if a teen came into church wearing immodest clothing then I would agree someone should talk to them. But punk clothing is more of a gray area, so it's a horse of a different color.

You teens want to be treated like adults so why don't you start acting like adults?

Bill C.

I've grown up in the church as a PK. It's quite hard not to become cynical about the "mature" adults in the church when you've seen as much as I have at such a young age. My point is, I would only be regressing in my Christian walk to act like an adult now.
God bless,
~JD

 

[UnashamedYouth]

I'm a YPK to be precise My dad's the youth pastor at our church

 

[cwclugston]

JonathanDT writes:

This is one of those things that since it really doesn't matter, your just gonna have to keep "grinning and bearing it." I really don't think there is anything you can do about it.

That's where you're wrong, man. I can continue to speak out and encourage others. I DON'T have to put up with it.

JonathanDT writes:

But punk clothing is more of a gray area, so it's a horse of a different color.

That's where you're wrong. It's as black as coal. There are a lot of things that are condoned by society at large that are unbecoming of a Christian. If anything, I would argue just the opposite. I'd be more willing to cut another Christian some slack over drinking than I would over body piercing and the like. I still stand by my position that the so-called punk style of dress is immodest.

Jonathan, you say that you are a preacher's kid. Why don't you have your father register with BaptistBoard.com and post here? I'd be interested to hear his opinion of the issues we're talking about. Thanks.

Bill C.

 

[Abiyah]

Bill C --

Your attitude here is amazing. The youth have
been very patient with you, very respectful. You
have done nothing but pick on them, demanding
things to be done and thought your way, and
accusing them when their opinions differed from
yours. You have challenged them without cause.
Why? What are you getting out of this attitude, or
what do you expect to get? Where does the Bible
agree with your opinions or say that your opinions
are to be those of the youth?

 

[JonathanDT]

Originally posted by cwclugston:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />JonathanDT writes:

This is one of those things that since it really doesn't matter, your just gonna have to keep "grinning and bearing it." I really don't think there is anything you can do about it.

That's where you're wrong, man. I can continue to speak out and encourage others. I DON'T have to put up with it.</font>[/QUOTE]But that's all you can do.

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />JonathanDT writes:

But punk clothing is more of a gray area, so it's a horse of a different color.

That's where you're wrong. It's as black as coal. There are a lot of things that are condoned by society at large that are unbecoming of a Christian. If anything, I would argue just the opposite. I'd be more willing to cut another Christian some slack over drinking than I would over body piercing and the like. I still stand by my position that the so-called punk style of dress is immodest.</font>[/QUOTE]That's quite an interesting position. I disagree with it, but if you want to have it that's fine by me.

Jonathan, you say that you are a preacher's kid. Why don't you have your father register with BaptistBoard.com and post here? I'd be interested to hear his opinion of the issues we're talking about. Thanks.

Bill C.

Actually, I currently am not a PK but an army brat.

My Dad is a Chaplain with the National Guard and was deployed in early March for 9-12 months(Right now he's in Ft. Stewart, Georgia training and then he'll be going to Kosovo) Actually, I really don't know what his opinion on this subject would be, all I know is that for my family, it isn't a subject at all. We dress in a certain manner, period.
God bless,
~JD

 

[cwclugston]

Abiyah writes:

Where does the Bible
agree with your opinions or say that your opinions
are to be those of the youth?

I believe Abby already pointed that out in one of her posts; she gave a long list of scriptures that back up the position we've been taking.

Bill C.

 

[cwclugston]

Here is Abby's post from the other thread where she brought out where the scriptures say that everything we're saying here is true:

Abby_the_IFBaptist


Member # 3374

posted March 20, 2003 11:07 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Folks, some days I truely think it's hopeless.
Set up rules only we can pass and others fail?! Ok, if that's what you got from my post, let make it clear that's not what I ment. I sure can't "pass" all the "Rules" myself, cause I got enough faults for three or four people {thank goodness God helps you die to them!} So I didn't mean to come of that way.

"Whose adorning let it not be that outward
adorning of plaiting the hair, and of
wearing of gold, or of putting on of
apparel;
1Pe 3:4
But let it be the hidden man of the heart,
in that which is not corruptible, even the
ornament of a meek and quiet spirit,
which is in the sight of God of great price.
1Pe 3:5
For after this manner in the old time the
holy women also, who trusted in God,
adorned themselves, being in subjection
unto their own husbands:"

"I beseech you therefore, brethren, by
the mercies of God, that ye present your
bodies a living sacrifice, holy,
acceptable unto God, which is your
reasonable service.
Ro 12:2
And be not conformed to this world: but
be ye transformed by the renewing of
your mind, that ye may prove what is
that good, and acceptable, and perfect,
will of God."

"Moreover the LORD saith, Because
the daughters of Zion are haughty, and
walk with stretched forth necks and
wanton eyes, walking and mincing as
they go, and making a tinkling with their
feet:
16. Isa 3:17
Therefore the Lord will smite with a
scab the crown of the head of the
daughters of Zion, and the LORD will
discover their secret parts.
17. Isa 3:18
In that day the Lord will take away the
bravery of their tinkling ornaments
about their feet, and their cauls, and
their round tires like the moon,
Isa 3:19
The chains, and the bracelets, and the
mufflers,
Isa 3:20
The bonnets, and the ornaments of the
legs, and the headbands, and the tablets,
and the earrings,
Isa 3:21
The rings, and nose jewels,
Isa 3:22
The changeable suits of apparel, and the
mantles, and the wimples, and the
crisping pins,
Isa 3:23
The glasses, and the fine linen, and the
hoods, and the vails."


"Doth not even nature itself
teach you, that, if a man have
long hair, it is a shame unto
him?
1Co 11:15
But if a woman have long
hair, it is a glory to her: for her
hair is given her for a
covering."

DOes that cover worldy for you? That's all I could find for right now.

~Abby
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 1352 | From: Way down in Dixie {Gaffney SC}but this world is not my home. I'm Heaven bound! | Registered: May 2002 | IP: Logged |

 

[UnashamedYouth]

yes and lets see... peircing of any kind on male or female shouldn't be allowed... and we can basically just go to the Muslim way of dress... cover up all the skin... don't let anyone see anything and that way they won't be offended....


and yeah there are pastor brats... but most of us are AOK

 

[cwclugston]

JonathanDT writes:

Actually, I really don't know what his opinion on this subject would be, all I know is that for my family, it isn't a subject at all. We dress in a certain manner, period.

Well it is obvious to me then, that he does not condone the things we're talking about. I still wonder what he would have to say about it.

Now in closing let me say this to the youth:

I love you. I'm all for you. I want God's best for you. However, having said that, that does not mean that I remain silent when you're doing things that I don't condone.

Bill C.

 

[Abiyah]

Originally posted by cwclugston:
Now in closing let me say this to the youth:

I love you. I'm all for you. I want God's best for you. However, having said that, that does not mean that I remain silent when you're doing things that I don't condone.

Bill C.

Bill, seriously, what does it matter for the youths'
eternity if YOU don't condone what they do or
wear? I don't understand you.

 

[cwclugston]

Abiyah writes:

Bill, seriously, what does it matter for the youths'
eternity if YOU don't condone what they do or
wear? I don't understand you.

Pardon me for living!!!!

Bill C.

 

[Abiyah]

No, no, no! I did not mean that as an insult! 8o)
I was serious!! I have strong opinions, too, and
I have high expectations for myself, but I don't
think I can expect you or anyone else to do what
I expect of myself. I really was wondering!!

And I won't pardon you for living!! I hope you
keep on doing it! 8oD