Persecution

[Michael Wrenn]

I have to admit that I was wrong, I have in the past told some Roman Catholics and Mainline Protestants that I believed they still had the spirit of persecution as did their spiritual ancestors. But I don't think that anymore. The RC's and the Lutherans have come out and apologized for the murder of Anabaptists and other dissenters during the Reformation era. I guess 400-500 years later could be called better late than never.

What I have seen lately is that RC's and mainline Protestants stand up for religious liberty and church-state separation while fundamentalists do not. I'll never forget about 17 years ago I was sitting in a Baptist Sunday School class, and a person was denigrating church-state separation. I couldn't believe what I was hearing! Here was this person denying and bad-mouthing a principle which his forefathers gave their lives for!

But I am not surprised now. I have been accused on this forum of making up my own god and cult; my views have been called a cancer. Well, we all know what you do with a cancer.

I have no doubt that if this was the Reformation era, the Catholics would be defending me and some fundamentalist Baptists here would be clamoring to put me to the torch, or the guillotine, where the cancer I hold could be cut out or burned out of the body of Christ. Quite ironic, and sad.

 

[The Biblicist]

I have to admit that I was wrong, I have in the past told some Roman Catholics and Mainline Protestants that I believed they still had the spirit of persecution as did their spiritual ancestors. But I don't think that anymore. The RC's and the Lutherans have come out and apologized for the murder of Anabaptists and other dissenters during the Reformation era. I guess 400-500 years later could be called better late than never.

What I have seen lately is that RC's and mainline Protestants stand up for religious liberty and church-state separation while fundamentalists do not. I'll never forget about 17 years ago I was sitting in a Baptist Sunday School class, and a person was denigrating church-state separation. I couldn't believe what I was hearing! Here was this person denying and bad-mouthing a principle which his forefathers gave their lives for!

But I am not surprised now. I have been accused on this forum of making up my own god and cult; my views have been called a cancer. Well, we all know what you do with a cancer.

I have no doubt that if this was the Reformation era, the Catholics would be defending me and some fundamentalist Baptists here would be clamoring to put me to the torch, or the guillotine, where the cancer I hold could be cut out or burned out of the body of Christ. Quite ironic, and sad.

Identifying teaching as "false" and the one teaching it as a "false teacher" does not equate to torture or administration of the death penalty. The ancient PACIFIST Anabaptists frequently identified Rome as the Great Harlot and all her priests as apostate false teachers but they did not torture or kill them.

You are just going to another extreme in your thinking and accusations.

 

[mandym]

Wow! Sillier and sillier

 

[DHK]

Persecution??
We have it so good. We don't know the half of what is going on in the world today. Just an example:

VIENTIANE, LAOS (Worthy News)– The only known Christian in a rural district of northern Laos was under pressure to abandon his faith in Christ or face expulsion from his village, his supporters told Worthy News.

Khamla of Dongvieng village in Viengphuka district was told by local authorities to "give up believing in the Christian religion" by March 7 "or be cast out from the village," said Human Rights Watch for Lao Religious Freedom (HRWLRF), which supports local Christians in Laos.

The Christian, who uses only one name, was allegedly summoned to appear at the local government headquarters where he faced some 20 officials, including a representative of the Communist party, the village leadership and security personnel.
"Authorities are believed to be attempting to abolish the Christian religion from taking root in Viengphuka district," said HRWLRF in a statement.

Khamla reportedly embraced the Christian faith only after claiming to have been healed from a long-term disease during following "fervent prayers by other believers" outside the district. Viengphuka district's estimated 20,000 people are mainly farmers and live in small rural villages.
Khamla is the latest known Christian to face expulsion over his faith, rights activists said.

CHRISTIAN FAMILIES
Elsewhere in northern Laos, rights activists said 10 Christian families in Hueygong Village, located in the Pakoo District of Luangprabang province, were given till March 18 to recant their faith or be forced to leave the area, Worthy News reported earlier.

In the same province news emerged Wednesday, March 7, that 14 Christian families, comprising some 80 persons, have been told to leave Hueysell village, in Ngoi District, if they don't stop believing in Jesus Christ.

"Thus far, village authorities have not carried through their threat of expulsion" which was issued in January by local authorities, said HRWLRF, adding that the Christians "have remained firm in their faith."
The group has urged the government respect the country's constitution and international treaties regarding religious freedom.

There are some 200,000 devoted Christians in Communist-run Laos, where most of the 6.4 million people are Buddhists, according to Christian estimates.
Lao officials have denied human rights abuses against minorities.

http://www.worthynews.com/11321-report-laos-christian-facing-ultimatum-to-recant-faith

 

[Michael Wrenn]

My point is simply that those who were once persecutors are now defenders of religious liberty and church-state separation, while some whose ancestors died for these principles have abandoned them.

 

[preacher4truth]

My point is simply that those who were once persecutors are now defenders of religious liberty and church-state separation, while some whose ancestors died for these principles have abandoned them.

The thing is your false teachings snowball into more errors, the latest error being your above quote.

There will be more, rest assured.

 

[Michael Wrenn]

The thing is your false teachings snowball into more errors, the latest error being your above quote.

There will be more, rest assured.

And I know I can count on there being more poisonous drivel dripping from you, too.

But keep it coming; I know I'm on the right track as long as those of your ilk consider me in error.

 

[SolaSaint]

Michael,

It's seems to me from several of the posts I read from you is that you are picking a fight. You don't seem to like us fundamental conservative Christians so you level posts at us hoping to draw us out to a fight. IMO

 

[Michael Wrenn]

Michael,

It's seems to me from several of the posts I read from you is that you are picking a fight. You don't seem to like us fundamental conservative Christians so you level posts at us hoping to draw us out to a fight. IMO

My friend, you have obviously not read enough because you have gotten it backwards. My inappropriate responses -- and yes I admit that -- have come because I was first attacked in the most vile way. I was called apostate, heretic, a cancer, a God-hater, charged with inventing my own god, charged with inventing a cult, and many more things.

My best friend whom I've know from childhood is a "fundamental conservative" Baptist Christian, but he has never called me what I have been called here.

I've had this same thing happen on other forums, with fundamentalists, Anglo-Catholics, Roman Catholics, and liberals. So, the problem is not the point on the theological spectrum that a person occupies but what's in that person's heart.

 

[SolaSaint]

I agree that no one should ever use hateful words against someone they disagree with especially a brother in Christ. However I still have to say you seem to throw out a lot of red meat to us conservative Christians. It would be like going on the Bill Maher show and stating "I love George Bush" and then wait for the fire.

 

[Michael Wrenn]

I agree that no one should ever use hateful words against someone they disagree with especially a brother in Christ. However I still have to say you seem to throw out a lot of red meat to us conservative Christians. It would be like going on the Bill Maher show and stating "I love George Bush" and then wait for the fire.

I make initial posts wherein I state what I believe, and that includes my strong beliefs.

Instead of commenting on the beliefs themselves, some here resort to attacking me personally.

When I first became a member here more than a decade ago, one of my best friends was Jeff Weaver, a Primitive Baptist. Primitive Baptist doctrine and mine are far apart in most ways, yet Jeff and I never had a harsh word for each other.

 

[preacher4truth]

Michael,

It's seems to me from several of the posts I read from you is that you are picking a fight. You don't seem to like us fundamental conservative Christians so you level posts at us hoping to draw us out to a fight. IMO

Nailed right here.

 

[preacher4truth]

I make initial posts wherein I state what I believe, and that includes my strong beliefs.

Instead of commenting on the beliefs themselves, some here resort to attacking me personally.

When I first became a member here more than a decade ago, one of my best friends was Jeff Weaver, a Primitive Baptist. Primitive Baptist doctrine and mine are far apart in most ways, yet Jeff and I never had a harsh word for each other.

Birds of a feather flock together, so I see nothing odd that the 2 of you got along quite well.

While you're speaking of others attacking you, there are several of your posts doing the same, and quite often. Sola has you figured out, you're looking for a fight and to be 'fed.'

 

[Michael Wrenn]

Birds of a feather flock together, so I see nothing odd that the 2 of you got along quite well.

While you're speaking of others attacking you, there are several of your posts doing the same, and quite often. Sola has you figured out, you're looking for a fight and to be 'fed.'

As I said, Jeff and I were very far apart on doctrine, but he exhibited the fruits of the spirit, unlike some here.

You obviously have not read enough. Sure, I responded inappropriately, after I was attacked with all manner of vileness and vitriol. Why don't you try to be honest.

Oh, and since you accused me of hiding, I'm still waiting for you to tell your real name and where you live. What's wrong, preacher; what are you afraid of?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Oh I know that ....he is Clark Kent & he lives in Gotham City. I also understand that he is a News reporter. :tongue3:

 

[Michael Wrenn]

Just wanted to add that I have been in contact with Jeff Weaver fairly recently ,and he is having some very critical health issues. He had serious health problems when he was active on here, but he is much worse now.

I ask for prayers for him; he was and is a kind and gentle spirit, a true follower of Jesus in word and deed. He was a dedicated Calvinist, so we were miles apart theologically, but Jeff is a true Christian, Spirit-filled and bearing fruit. He's one of the nicest people I've ever met. It saddens me to know he has suffered so much and continues to.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

Oh I know that ....he is Clark Kent & he lives in Gotham City. I also understand that he is a News reporter. :tongue3:

EWF, you are a good friend of mind so I must correct you because you are quite wrong. Clark Kent lives in Metropolis and is a News Reporter while Bruce Wayne lives in Gotham and is a trust fund Playboy who also owns a controling interest in Wayne industries.

As far as Michael its funny but true that many people who believe they are right call others heretics. In fact my gay brother in-law tried to accuse me of Heresy when I told him the truth that homosexuality is against God, scriptures, and nature. So these comments should be taken with a grain of salt. People passionately hold to the things they believe. Disenters are usually verbally abused. Fortunately for us in this world of social media and especially in the west; we are not killed for our views.

I'll keep Mr. Weaver in prayer.

 

[preacher4truth]

As I said, Jeff and I were very far apart on doctrine, but he exhibited the fruits of the spirit, unlike some here.

You obviously have not read enough. Sure, I responded inappropriately, after I was attacked with all manner of vileness and vitriol. Why don't you try to be honest.

Oh, and since you accused me of hiding, I'm still waiting for you to tell your real name and where you live. What's wrong, preacher; what are you afraid of?

As I said, and which you avoid, you've engaged in much name calling and inflammatory attacks yourself. Something you aren't facing. That's being honest contrary to you implying I'm not.

Why in todays world would I go out and share my name, and where I live in public? Grow up son, it proves nothing that you use your name publicly while others think it wise to not do so.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

SolaSaint: I agree that no one should ever use hateful words against someone they disagree with especially a brother in Christ.

HP: Where have you been? Why your condemnation now of 'hateful words' when they have been used for months on this board against many, including the moderator of this list? Tell us Rick, what do you see as hateful words and why? Be specific. How about the words used against Michael? Are they hateful? What about word like blasphemy, heresy, and heretic, or associating a believer with cults and false religions? What have you ever done to stop such attacks on other believers? Have you ever even flagged a post when such personal attacks on believers is noted?

 

[SolaSaint]

HP: Where have you been? Why your condemnation now of 'hateful words' when they have been used for months on this board against many, including the moderator of this list? Tell us Rick, what do you see as hateful words and why? Be specific. How about the words used against Michael? Are they hateful? What about word like blasphemy, heresy, and heretic, or associating a believer with cults and false religions? What have you ever done to stop such attacks on other believers? Have you ever even flagged a post when such personal attacks on believers is noted?

HP--Not sure why you are posting this but I feel the moderators are here to police the board, not me. I have posted against hateful speach before but cannot be specific--can't remember posts from ages ago. Sorry