Personal Conviction?

[Gina B]

If someone teaches something straight from scripture and just nails it dead-on and it's about recommitting to exemplifying the love of Christ to others through the Spirit within us...well, what would think if


someone didn't respond.

I understand that some people won't respond to certain things at certain times, that hey, maybe the lesson that day isn't an issue for them and they've perfected or come really close to perfection in that certain area, but what about those things that one can never perfect and should always be willing to work on?

Is it wrong to feel angry that they had absolutely no response to the opportunity to recommit? Especially when they weren't asked to make it a separate public announcement or anything of the sort, simply that if they wanted to recommit, they could do it within themselves during communion, but then they don't even bother to take communion so that's two heart-breaks in one.

What if you were the teacher? Would that just amaze you to see people walk out afterward an intensely spiritual lesson from a person with an amazing calling to teach from the heart?

I'm curious about this. I am seriously in a bit of shock. There was a Israeli national teaching, totally amazing spiritual gift for it, and to see people just walk away after really confused me. Am I judging them? Yes. I think that was so wrong. Nobody ever is perfected in their love for their neighbor. And who walks away from communion? Maybe someone who needs more help, but the help was there and a number of those who didn't go simply went and had lunch in the next room.

What on earth is going on with God's people?! This scared me. Scares me. The hard-hearted people who aren't moved by the most earnest pleas.

 

[Tom Bryant]

If someone teaches something straight from scripture and just nails it dead-on and it's about recommitting to exemplifying the love of Christ to others through the Spirit within us...well, what would think if


someone didn't respond.

I understand that some people won't respond to certain things at certain times, that hey, maybe the lesson that day isn't an issue for them and they've perfected or come really close to perfection in that certain area, but what about those things that one can never perfect and should always be willing to work on?

Is it wrong to feel angry that they had absolutely no response to the opportunity to recommit? Especially when they weren't asked to make it a separate public announcement or anything of the sort, simply that if they wanted to recommit, they could do it within themselves during communion, but then they don't even bother to take communion so that's two heart-breaks in one.

What if you were the teacher? Would that just amaze you to see people walk out afterward an intensely spiritual lesson from a person with an amazing calling to teach from the heart?

I'm curious about this. I am seriously in a bit of shock. There was a Israeli national teaching, totally amazing spiritual gift for it, and to see people just walk away after really confused me. Am I judging them? Yes. I think that was so wrong. Nobody ever is perfected in their love for their neighbor. And who walks away from communion? Maybe someone who needs more help, but the help was there and a number of those who didn't go simply went and had lunch in the next room.

What on earth is going on with God's people?! This scared me. Scares me. The hard-hearted people who aren't moved by the most earnest pleas.

Trust me when I say that this bothers every preacher and teacher of the Word of God. You pour out what God has poured into your heart during study and nothing seemingly happens.

As I grown in ministry I have rested in 2 truths: 1) Just because there is no visible fruit does not mean there is no fruit. God works in hearts. and 2) I am responsible to preach, it is God's responsibility to give results that will please Him.

Does it still frustrate me? You betcha! Do I still hate when people walk out and the first thing they talk about is how the yankees will win the pennant or what they had for dinner? I hate it more now because it seems more common than ever before. But this is God's Work. Mine is to obey.

But if it was up to me....

 

[Nicholas25]

God deals with hearts. People only truly respond when He deals with them, but yes, it is frustrating.

 

[freeatlast]

Gina I understand your question, I think, but I have no clue what you are talking about.

 

[annsni]

I just think we don't know their hearts. Are they really saved or just playing the game? Are they at a point in their life where they are struggling with sin and they can not respond at this time and will be working on this other area of their life right now? Or finally, did they just not fully understand?? We just don't know what's going on inside their hearts and the best thing to do is to pray for them.

 

[Iconoclast]

If someone teaches something straight from scripture and just nails it dead-on and it's about recommitting to exemplifying the love of Christ to others through the Spirit within us...well, what would think if


someone didn't respond.

I understand that some people won't respond to certain things at certain times, that hey, maybe the lesson that day isn't an issue for them and they've perfected or come really close to perfection in that certain area, but what about those things that one can never perfect and should always be willing to work on?

Is it wrong to feel angry that they had absolutely no response to the opportunity to recommit? Especially when they weren't asked to make it a separate public announcement or anything of the sort, simply that if they wanted to recommit, they could do it within themselves during communion, but then they don't even bother to take communion so that's two heart-breaks in one.

What if you were the teacher? Would that just amaze you to see people walk out afterward an intensely spiritual lesson from a person with an amazing calling to teach from the heart?

I'm curious about this. I am seriously in a bit of shock. There was a Israeli national teaching, totally amazing spiritual gift for it, and to see people just walk away after really confused me. Am I judging them? Yes. I think that was so wrong. Nobody ever is perfected in their love for their neighbor. And who walks away from communion? Maybe someone who needs more help, but the help was there and a number of those who didn't go simply went and had lunch in the next room.

What on earth is going on with God's people?! This scared me. Scares me. The hard-hearted people who aren't moved by the most earnest pleas.

John Owen would say this about that;

Again; there are so great and pregnant evidences of the prevalency of an
earthly, worldly frame of spirit in many who make profession of religion,that it is high time they were called unto a due consideration how
unanswerable they are therein unto the power and spirituality of that
religion which they do profess. There is no way whereby such a frame may
be evinced to prevail in many, yea, in the generality of such professors, that
is not manifest unto all. In their habits, attires, and vestments, in their usual
converse and misspense of time, in their over-liberal entertainment of
themselves and others, unto the borders of excess, and sundry other things
of a like nature, there is in many such a conformity unto the world (a thing
severely forbidden) that it is hard to make a distinction between them. And
these things do manifest such a predominancy of carnal affections in the
minds of men as, whatever may be pretended unto the contrary, is
inconsistent with spiritual peace. To call men off from this evil frame of
heart and mind, to discover the sin and danger of it, to direct them unto the
ways and means whereby it may be affected, to supply their thoughts and
affections with better objects, to discover and press that exercise of them
which is indispensably required of all believers if they design life and peace,
is some part of the work of the ensuing discourse. It may be it will be
judged but a weak attempt as unto the attaining of that end; but it cannot
be denied to have these two advantages, — first, that it is seasonable, and,
secondly, that it is sincerely intended. And if it have this only success, that
it may occasion others who have more ability and opportunity than I have
to bring in their assistance for an opposition unto the vehement and
importunate insinuations of the world in these things to have an
entertainment in the minds of professors, this labor will not be lost. But
things are come to that pass amongst us that unless a more than ordinary
vigorous exercise of the ministry of the word, with other means appointed
unto the same end, be engaged in to recall professors unto that strict
mortification, that sincerity of conversation, that separation from the ways
of the world, that heavenly mindedness, that delight in the contemplation of
spiritual things, which the gospel and the whole nature of Christian religion
do require, we shall lose the glory of our profession, and leave it very
uncertain what will be our eternal condition. The same may be spoken
concerning love of the world, as unto the advantages and emoluments
which men trust to attain unto themselves thereby. This is that which
13
renders men earthly minded, and most remote from having their
conversation above. In the pursuit of this corrupt affection do many
professors of religion grow withering, useless, sapless, giving no evidence
that the love of God abideth in them. On these and many other accounts do
many Christians evidence themselves to be strangers from spiritual
mindedness, from a life of meditation and holy contemplation on things
above; yet unless we are found in these things in some good measure, no
grace will thrive or flourish in us, no duty will be rightly performed by us,
no condition sanctified or improved, nor are we prepared in a due manner,
or “made meet for the inheritance of the saints in light.” Wherefore, as was
said, to direct and provoke men unto that which is the only remedy of all
these evils, which alone is the means of giving them a view into and a
foretaste of eternal glory, especially unto such who are in my own
condition, — namely, in a very near approach unto a departure out of this
world, — is the design and scope of the ensuing discourse, which is
recommended unto the grace of God for the benefit of the reader.

There was an old time evangelist who would say this;
http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=83102202440

 

[Iconoclast]

Here is more from Owen;

To be earthly minded is an operation and effect of
the carnal mind in one especial way and instance; and it is as exclusive of
life and salvation as the carnal mind itself, <500319>Philippians 3:19; <620215>1 John
2:15,16. This, therefore, is opposed unto the being of spiritual mindedness
no less than to be carnally minded is. When there is in any a love of earthly
things that is predominant, whence a person may be rightly denominated to
be earthly minded, he is not, nor can be, spiritually minded at all; he hath
no interest in the frame of heart and spirit intended thereby. And thus it is
evidently with the greatest part of them who are called Christians in the
world, let them pretend what they will to the contrary.Again; there

The covetous are
excluded from the kingdom of God no less severely than fornicators,
idolaters, adulterers, and thieves, <460609>1 Corinthians 6:9,10. But there is a
degree in being earthly minded which they suppose their interest,
advantages, relations, and occasions of life do call for, which they would
be a little indulged in; they may abide in such a frame without a
disparagement of their profession. And the truth is, they have too many
companions to fear an especial reflection on themselves

 

[HAMel]

Gina B, I fully understand what you're saying. Like it is with kids, you can tell them but you can't tell them much. Only when they are able to "see" will your point come home to roost. The question is then, how can you get someone to see?

 

[menageriekeeper]

Gina, I'd have walked away.

Why?

Several reasons:

1. I dislike being asked to make "spur of the moment" decisions about anything, but especially about spiritual things. Taking the offered communion would have seemed to much like I had made some decision, that I may not have made (and might not will make in the future).

2. What if I didn't agree? Or the point didn't apply to me? Just because there was solid scriptual points made, doesn't mean *I* necessarily have/need to apply that somehow to my heart. Perhaps the lesson merely dealt with my outside trappings (how I present Christ) and wasn't a heart issue at all.

3. Mostly, I would need to absorb. I don't make hasty decisions (see point one) because I've learned over the years that my emotions get in the way of good decisions, so I rarely make a decision based on emotion. There has to be logic and study involved so I can make wise decisions. And despite the impact of the lesson on YOUR heart, I can't let it impact me in the same manner. I know from experience, long years of experience, that I make bad decisions by listening to my emotions. So I would have to let the lesson settle. I'd have to think about it. Sleep on it. Look up the scriptures given and consider them in the face of other scriptures. Think about the presentation and the presenter. (hey, I'm one of those people who don't read body language well. This is something I definately have to consider or you could sell me that bridge thats for sale in New York)

And I'm not going to take the next step of communion if I think that will mean to someone (anyone) that I agree fully with the presentation. Communion is to precious to me for that. And I'm rather set in my ways when it comes to where and how I accept communion, so for it to be presented in the context of a lecture or Bible study where I may not have come prepared to take communion, I'm simply going to step back. I won't judge you for taking it in that setting, but I expect the same respect for my decision not to.

Like the others have said, its not that the lesson had no impact, just sometimes you have to wait for the seeds to sprout.

 

[Gina B]

I understand what you're saying MK. I failed to be clear on one point though, that may change how you view this.

It was the normal communion day, they were having it regardless of the lesson so partaking in no way implied anyone made a decision regarding the lesson.

 

[matt wade]

What if you were the teacher? Would that just amaze you to see people walk out afterward an intensely spiritual lesson from a person with an amazing calling to teach from the heart?

Seems like you are taking this a bit too personally. Your entire post tells us how much it hurt you personally that someone didn't like your lesson enough to follow through on it.

Get over it...just teach what's been given to you and let God do the rest.

 

[Amy.G]

I guess it might depend on who you were teaching. For instance, on Wednesday nights, only the most dedicated show up for the service. It's like the core group of members and not the once a weekers or the every once in awhilers.
The pastor always makes a plea for those who may be there that need salvation, but on a normal weds night, all that are there are already saved. Does that mean we didn't listen? No, we are already saved and so we leave without "responding".

We are just seed planters and waterers anyway. God is the gardener.

 

[abcgrad94]

Seems like you are taking this a bit too personally. Your entire post tells us how much it hurt you personally that someone didn't like your lesson enough to follow through on it.

Get over it...just teach what's been given to you and let God do the rest.

I guess you missed the part where Gina said it was an Israeli national doing the teaching.

 

[abcgrad94]

Trust me when I say that this bothers every preacher and teacher of the Word of God. You pour out what God has poured into your heart during study and nothing seemingly happens.

As I grown in ministry I have rested in 2 truths: 1) Just because there is no visible fruit does not mean there is no fruit. God works in hearts. and 2) I am responsible to preach, it is God's responsibility to give results that will please Him.

Does it still frustrate me? You betcha! Do I still hate when people walk out and the first thing they talk about is how the yankees will win the pennant or what they had for dinner? I hate it more now because it seems more common than ever before. But this is God's Work. Mine is to obey.

But if it was up to me....

Good post! :thumbsup:

 

[Gina B]

Thanks for the replies folks!

Iconoclast, I'm gonna have to save that, good read. Made me think of the phrase "ancient words are ever true!" Of course they were talking about scripture, but it's still interesting how so often, things about people/human nature still ring true hundreds of years after the observation. For all our "advancements" it's a glaring reminder that while we've managed to change everything around us, we've not been capable of changing ourselves apart from God. It simply can't be done.

Matt, speaking of love...try it. It's delish!

 

[Iconoclast]

Thanks for the replies folks!

Iconoclast, I'm gonna have to save that, good read. Made me think of the phrase "ancient words are ever true!" Of course they were talking about scripture, but it's still interesting how so often, things about people/human nature still ring true hundreds of years after the observation. For all our "advancements" it's a glaring reminder that while we've managed to change everything around us, we've not been capable of changing ourselves apart from God. It simply can't be done.

Matt, speaking of love...try it. It's delish!

Gina,
Here is a link to the whole book.....it is one of the greatest works written by a christian teacher, ever.
Owen is a bit difficult to read...read it slow..re-read as you work through.

You will not believe the clarity he brings to this issue,great verses offered.

Gina..when you click on the link...scroll till you see plain text,then click it.
http://books.google.com/books?id=9ic3AAAAMAAJ&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false

 

[Iconoclast]

Gina,
I forgot to mention, this whole book is about one verse romans 8:6

6For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace

this is well worth your time to work thr:waveyugh

 

[menageriekeeper]

Gina, I don't know if it would change my mind or not. You said the lesson was spiritually intense, which to my mind means my emotions would be plugged in. Depending on what the lesson was about, afterward my mind might not be "on Christ" but rather still chewing on the lesson. At that point I might still choose to not take communion because I'm rather set on the idea that communion must be about Christ and His sacrifice and not about whatever failings I've just had pointed out to me. *I* have to be in a different place to give Christ the honor He deserves during communion. If my mind is full of me than its not full of Him.

But honestly you take a room full of people, at least half aren't going to feel, think or believe the way the other believes, thinks or feels. People are fickle. If you felt the moving of the Holy Spirit, remember and enjoy it. He moved, and the fruit will appear in good time. Sooner, perhaps, in your case because obviously you felt a calling the rest did not.

 

[Gina B]

Thanks Iconoclast! I'm looking forward to this read. Woo-hoo!

 

[Iconoclast]

Thanks Iconoclast! I'm looking forward to this read. Woo-hoo!

Great...I am going to re-read this myself....it is that good.
I am certain i will get more out of it now...than the first three times I have read it,lol...
You will see what I mean right away. Gina....at first I was not even sure what he was speaking of...but then I saw very quickly that this is at the core of heart reality of Kingdom living,and Kingdom thinking. I have never been the same since i have tried to patiently work through it.
I had to ask friends what they thought was being said. I was startled that having been a christians for a long time, how unaware I was on how many verses zero in on this grace and duty.

As questions come up...post them..with page numbers and maybe others will enjoy this very useful instruction that is needful for every christian.

2. There are those of whom also it may be said, that God is not in all their thoughts, though they acknowledge his being. They are not practically influenced in any thing by the notions they have of him. " They profess that they know God, but in their works deny him, being abominable and disobedient, and to every good work reprobate." How many in our day who think, who act in all tilings, as if there was no God, at least as if they never thought of him with fear and reverence! We need not seek far for evidences of men's disregard to God, the pride of their countenances testify against them. Oaths, licentiousness of life, and contempt of all that is good, evidence and confirm it. Such as these, however, may own God in words, may be afraid of him in dangers, and may attend outwardly on his worship; but they think not of God at all in a proper manner; he' is not in all their thoughts.


3. There are yet less degrees of this forgetfulness of God. Some are so filled with thoughts of the world, and the concerns of life, that it is impossible they should think of God as they ought. As the love of God and the love of the world, in prevalent degrees, are inconsistent, so thoughts of God and of the world, in the like degree, are inconsistent; yet this is the state of many who would, notwithstanding, be esteemed spiritually minded. Love and desire of earthly things, exhaust the vigour of their spirits all the day long, and in the midst of a multitude of worljly thoughts, with heads and hearts full of them, many engage in holy duties, and these times must suffice for thoughts of God. But notwithstanding these duties, through the want of a due preparation for . them, through the fulness of their minds with other things, and through the absence of grace in them, it may be said, comparatively, that God is not in all their thoughts.

4. Persons cherishing secret lusts in their hearts and lives, cannot be said to have God properly in their thoughts. Such persons no doubt there are. God is much in their words, but not duly in their thoughts; they flatter themselves for a season, but presently some hateful or hurtful lust discovers itself to be predominant in them. One is drunken, another unclean, a third an extortioner, giving scandal hereby to the world, and bringing themselves under a most dreadful woe; but we must bear the reproach, as the apostles of Christ and others did of old, committing the issue of all things unto the care of heaven; however, it is good in such a season to be jealous over ourselves and others, and to exhort one another daily, whilst it is called to-day, lest any be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. The persons here described cannot be spiritually minded;