Pet Peeves of the SBC

[Crabtownboy]

Intriguing. Do explain. Srsly.

And I concur with the other poster when I say "what ABOUT Lifeway?" I'm curious.

• The movement away from holding fast to the Priesthood of the Believer
• The abandonment of tolerance of others and defending their right to believe as they feel is right ... even if we disagree with them.
• Becoming creedal. If you do not totally agree with the Baptist Faith and Message you are not welcome.

I have no opinion on Lifeway.

This a start.

 

[JamesL]

Lifeway is absolutely horrible on more than one point.

First, as a company, organization, indoctrinating force, whatever you prefer to call them...
They clearly have a political agenda that shows up in the curriculum.

But worse than the philosophy and agenda which drive the lessons, is the scriptural abuse employed. It is obvious to me that they FIRST determine whatever ultra-conservative political stance they wish to convey, then scour the scriptures to find whatever scripture they believe will come closest to representing their preconceived notions.

That way they can claim that God said it.

An example is when they spent about a month on homosexuality and beastiality, right after several states began to allow gay marriage. The beastiality was thrown in for appearance sake, so the political agenda didn't show to the sheeple.

At a Sunday School "training" conference, a Lifeway spokesman was singing their praises, that the coming year, each week would have a consistent topic through every age group. I raised my hand and said that we had just spent a month in the aforementioned topics in my class, and I only had one comment about that:

I had a 7 year old boy in Sunday School; and if I find out that he's learning about sexual activity, somebody's head is gonna roll.

They can keep their political agenda, as far as I'm concerned. SS should be about learning the scriptures, not about gay marriage or what Hobby Lobby is encountering at the hands of the government.


Next, the curriculum itself is just about worthless for learning the scriptures. Every ounce of theology is dust deep, verses pulled out of context almost every week, and twisted to a strange meaning.

The body of Christ would be well served if Lifeway went bankrupt and stopped printing their worthless trash.

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

James, I love most of your posts, but that last one is symptomatic of a lack of understanding as to what is happening in today's world.

First, you mention a 7-year-old "learning about sexual activity." Well, guess what, brother? He's gonna learn it anyway. You better pray he learns from it from a biblical perspective.

Secondly, spiritual warfare is afoot at unprecedented levels today. Hobby Lobby may seem to you like a "political agenda" but it is indicative of what is happening with those who hold to a secular, anti-Christian perspective.

Perhaps LifeWay gives more space both on paper and online to "sociopolitical agendas" than the amount with which many Christians are comfortable, but the fact of the matter is, the end is near -- and while many have been guilty of screaming that trite phrase for centuries, it's pretty much true at this stage of the game. I'm listening for the trumpet, and being ready. How about you?

 

[DHK]

James, I love most of your posts, but that last one is symptomatic of a lack of understanding as to what is happening in today's world.

First, you mention a 7-year-old "learning about sexual activity." Well, guess what, brother? He's gonna learn it anyway. You better pray he learns from it from a biblical perspective.

Secondly, spiritual warfare is afoot at unprecedented levels today. Hobby Lobby may seem to you like a "political agenda" but it is indicative of what is happening with those who hold to a secular, anti-Christian perspective.

Perhaps LifeWay gives more space both on paper and online to "sociopolitical agendas" than the amount with which many Christians are comfortable, but the fact of the matter is, the end is near -- and while many have been guilty of screaming that trite phrase for centuries, it's pretty much true at this stage of the game. I'm listening for the trumpet, and being ready. How about you?

Lifeway is absolutely horrible on more than one point.

First, as a company, organization, indoctrinating force, whatever you prefer to call them...
They clearly have a political agenda that shows up in the curriculum.

But worse than the philosophy and agenda which drive the lessons, is the scriptural abuse employed. It is obvious to me that they FIRST determine whatever ultra-conservative political stance they wish to convey, then scour the scriptures to find whatever scripture they believe will come closest to representing their preconceived notions.

That way they can claim that God said it.

And you still say that the SBC is not a denomination?
And that each church is totally autonomous?
And that no church is affected by the SBC "denomination" itself?

The above tells a different story.
No IFB church affects another since they are all independent of one another. There are no headquarters. There is no denomination. Even your website admits that the SBC is a denomination.

 

[Revmitchell]

And you still say that the SBC is not a denomination?
And that each church is totally autonomous?
And that no church is affected by the SBC "denomination" itself?

The above tells a different story.
No IFB church affects another since they are all independent of one another. There are no headquarters. There is no denomination. Even your website admits that the SBC is a denomination.

Being affected by does not equal being controlled by. Every church can make and odes make their own decisions.

The churches in the SBC tells the convention what to do not the other way around.

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

DHK,

You're again derailing the thread. And you're a moderator?? Don't you know better? I've sent you a PM. If you want to debate this issue, start a thread!

 

[DHK]

What are your pet peeves of the SBC?

My pet peeve about the SBC is its demoninationalism.

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

Being affected by does not equal being controlled by. Every church can make and odes make their own decisions.

The churches in the SBC tells the convention what to do not the other way around.

Amen! :thumbsup:

Whether some want to see it or not, "autonomous" means "acting independently, or having the freedom to do so." In Kantian philosophy, it means to act for the moral good rather than for personal desires. Just FYI.

 

[DHK]

Amen! :thumbsup:

Whether some want to see it or not, "autonomous" means "acting independently, or having the freedom to do so." In Kantian philosophy, it means to act for the moral good rather than for personal desires. Just FYI.

If they were completely independent and autonomous they wouldn't have any need to be a part of the SBC in the first place would they? They are a part of the SBC as a denomination, give to its operational costs, use its materials, etc., etc.

 

[JamesL]

James, I love most of your posts, but that last one is symptomatic of a lack of understanding as to what is happening in today's world.

First, you mention a 7-year-old "learning about sexual activity." Well, guess what, brother? He's gonna learn it anyway. You better pray he learns from it from a biblical perspective.

Secondly, spiritual warfare is afoot at unprecedented levels today. Hobby Lobby may seem to you like a "political agenda" but it is indicative of what is happening with those who hold to a secular, anti-Christian perspective.

Perhaps LifeWay gives more space both on paper and online to "sociopolitical agendas" than the amount with which many Christians are comfortable, but the fact of the matter is, the end is near -- and while many have been guilty of screaming that trite phrase for centuries, it's pretty much true at this stage of the game. I'm listening for the trumpet, and being ready. How about you?

I get what you're saying, and wouldn't argue at all against your conclusions about my son needing to learn about sex from a biblical perspective, and the feeling that the end is near.

However, a biblical perspective and an American conservative theo-political perspective aren't the same thing. My boy is 8 now, and he surely has encountered sexual activity in some music he's heard and things he's seen in public. And I have begun to talk to him. But if anyone thinks he's ready to learn about beastiality, no no no. That was really my point, that kids that age don't need lessons thematically in line with adults. And it's foolish of Lifeway to applaud themselves for it.

And, the politically driven SBC position paints gay people as outside saving grace, something you've argued against on this board. I don't want my son learning that God's grace can't reach a particular brand of sinner.

I also believe the end is near, as far as I can ascertain from how scripture paints the world in those times when God's judgment has been most severe. But governments have been against Christianity for 2,000 years. And I see no charge from God to dive into politics in order to give His people relief from financial imposition or other types of persecution. Jesus said the world will hate us. And the typical SBC leader is trying to make America into a theocracy. Sheesh

We're gonna get the short end of the stick while we're on this planet, and only Christ Himself will provide relief. Too many today are telling Christ we don't need Him coming back because we've got this. We'll just work harder in politics to change society into the godly society we've dreamed up, instead of hoping for His appearing.

And Lifeway helps drive that ill thinking. From the convention, through the publishing house, into the minds of the sheeple. Even if I agreed with the position, I would have to admit that the method is a form of brainwashing. It is control from the top down, through subtle hints and scripture twisting.

 

[The Archangel]

If they were completely independent and autonomous they wouldn't have any need to be a part of the SBC in the first place would they? They are a part of the SBC as a denomination, give to its operational costs, use its materials, etc., etc.

You simply have no earthly idea about that which you are discussing here.

The Archangel

 

[SolaSaint]

That is historical revisionism.

Rev, you are going to need to provide a source on that to get my attention. I have several books detailing a Calvinistic early SBC.

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

However, a biblical perspective and an American conservative theo-political perspective aren't the same thing.

Agreed. You err in thinking LifeWay has such a perspective.

My boy is 8 now, and he surely has encountered sexual activity in some music he's heard and things he's seen in public. And I have begun to talk to him. But if anyone thinks he's ready to learn about beastiality, no no no.

Another error, James. They don't teach that material to the children. One adult lesson set discusses it. You're leaping to fantastic conclusions.

That was really my point, that kids that age don't need lessons thematically in line with adults.

While teaching thematically, they don't teach the same material. It is possible to teach on parallel lines without getting into the same gory details with the children that may come up in an adult Sunday school.

And it's foolish of Lifeway to applaud themselves for it.

I think you've jumped out on a limb with a saw here. They are not applauding themselves for bringing bestiality into the second grade Sunday school classroom. Because they don't.

And, the politically driven SBC position paints gay people as outside saving grace, something you've argued against on this board. I don't want my son learning that God's grace can't reach a particular brand of sinner.a

That's incorrect. They teach no such thing. Perhaps a Sunday school teacher might teach that, but he/she is wrong, and didn't get the info from the material.

... the typical SBC leader is trying to make America into a theocracy. Sheesh

Beyond that, the only comment I have for you is that such a statement is absurd.

Too many today are telling Christ we don't need Him coming back because we've got this. We'll just work harder in politics to change society into the godly society we've dreamed up, instead of hoping for His appearing.

And Lifeway helps drive that ill thinking.

See my last comment in this post.

From the convention, through the publishing house, into the minds of the sheeple. Even if I agreed with the position, I would have to admit that the method is a form of brainwashing. It is control from the top down, through subtle hints and scripture twisting.

Wash. Rinse. Repeat. That's a highly opinionated, misinformed, empty rant, James.

 

[JonC]

Thank you!!!!
This thread is not meant to be about the fact that SBC affilated churches are independent.

Now, as far as Lifeway - what specifically do you dislike about Lifeway?

I think that what I dislike most about Lifeway is their Adult “study” material. I had attended a SBC church which insisted on Lifeway material. The material was shallow, to say the least. I prefer to study the Bible rather than what “Bob” is going through and how the Bible may apply to Bob’s life. It’s not that I am opposed to application based lessons, it’s more that I believe we start and end with Scripture. Perhaps this is a fault of some SBC churches rather than Lifeway - and they’re just marketing a niche, but much of the material is awful so this is my biggest discouragement in the SBC. (I attend a SBC church now that does not mandate Lifeway materials, so perhaps this is not an across the board gripe- but it does seem to me that Lifeway studies are amazingly shallow…perhaps to market to such a diverse denomination).

I view Lifeway as the direction the SBC is going, in general. That is, shallow and theologically illiterate. The SBC is, and always has been, a denomination that allowed for differences of belief - to a point (which I find acceptable to a degree). But now it seems that these differences are ignored by simply ignoring theology altogether.

Lifeway seems much more a business than a ministry. This also seems to be the model that our larger churches are headed. We tend to buy programs instead of turning towards Scripture. Look at the VBS coming soon to our SBC churches, for example. Most will be a packaged deal - this year…Agency D3. A year or so ago it was something about an airplane…I can’t remember. The only thing I remember was that the 4th graders thought it cheesy …but they learned the program, of course. That’s what the parents go to see on the last day.

I could go on about Lifeway…and much will be only my opinion (but that’s OK, that was what the OP was about…my peeves). Basically Lifeway sells programs to churches who do not have the time or inclination (hopefully not the discernment) to study Scripture. Basically I don't know when we got to the point where we feel Scripture is simply not enough, but Lifeway studies do not fill the gap that Biblical illiteracy has created.

Now, as far as SBC churches…I probably will never attend another denomination. I agree with the SBC statement of faith and appreciate the SBC stand on issues. Saying a church is SBC is not really enough to know what a local church believes. Again, I'm fine with that. The SBC does not dictate to local churches.