In the KJV "Ye" is the plural form of "you," if that is what you are asking.Thinkingstuff said:Most likely. Are your translating Ye into Y' all?
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In the KJV "Ye" is the plural form of "you," if that is what you are asking.Thinkingstuff said:Most likely. Are your translating Ye into Y' all?
All right. DHK says they are catholic (universal) keys. Not bad, DHK. It makes more sense than what I heard from a seminary professor a couple of weeks ago. However, I can't understand why we all have a set of keys but only the apostles can bind and loose (Post #16). Jesus did not seem to make that distinction in v. 19.DHK said:Your argument is silly. They Bible repeats itself many times when it says: Whosoever believes on me shall be saved. Should we snip out every verse where Jesus or the apostles repeat themselves concerning this wonderful truth????
The keys are the keys of knowledge. In other words they represent the gospel, which every believer has. Look at Scripture.
Luke 11:52 Woe unto you, lawyers! for ye have taken away the key of knowledge: ye entered not in yourselves, and them that were entering in ye hindered.
The Pharisees and the lawyers had taken away the key of knowledge from the people--the key of eternal life--the right way to heaven.
The key to eternal life is through the gospel. We all have that key, not just Peter. It was given to all the apostles, and (Acts 1:8), they were to give it to all the world, that is, all who believed.
DHK said:Your argument is silly. They Bible repeats itself many times when it says: Whosoever believes on me shall be saved. Should we snip out every verse where Jesus or the apostles repeat themselves concerning this wonderful truth????
The keys are the keys of knowledge. In other words they represent the gospel, which every believer has. Look at Scripture.
Luke 11:52 Woe unto you, lawyers! for ye have taken away the key of knowledge: ye entered not in yourselves, and them that were entering in ye hindered.
The Pharisees and the lawyers had taken away the key of knowledge from the people--the key of eternal life--the right way to heaven.
The key to eternal life is through the gospel. We all have that key, not just Peter. It was given to all the apostles, and (Acts 1:8), they were to give it to all the world, that is, all who believed.
Aash said:In Matt 16:18 who believes that Peter is the Rock? who believes Peter is a small stone/pebble?
DHK said:It just wasn't given to Peter. It was given to all the Apostles:
Matthew 18:18 Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
Matthew 18:18 Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.Zenas said:All right. DHK says they are catholic (universal) keys. Not bad, DHK. It makes more sense than what I heard from a seminary professor a couple of weeks ago. However, I can't understand why we all have a set of keys but only the apostles can bind and loose (Post #16). Jesus did not seem to make that distinction in v. 19.
"Would have," "could have," but didn't. The Holy Spirit did not inspire Matthew to pen those words. Petra is used 16 times in the NT and every time it is translated "rock," many of those times referring to a massive rock.Aash said:As I said earlier if Matthew wanted to distinguish between rocks, he would have used lithos, which could be used to refer to a large rock, although it too (like petra) was more commonly used to denote a small stone. There is a third word that Matthew could have used that ALWAYS means "small stone" or "pebble": Psephos. It is used this way twice in Rev 2:17.
One uses personal pronouns when talking to people. So what?Also Matt 16 Jesus uses the word you 7 times in just three verses. Jesus didn't say he would build the Church on Peter's confession/faith.
Only a Catholic would say something like that. What denomination are you any way. You go to St. Andrew's Church??The context is clearly one in which Jesus is communicating a unique authority to Peter.
Rigtht, and the foundation that He builds on is Himself. Any other foundation is sinking sand. That is the whole point of the parable. If Peter is the foundation, your church is sinking or has already sunk.Plus Jesus is portrayed as the builder of the Church. Jesus is "the wise man who built his house upon the rock" (Matt. 7:24) in Matthew’s Gospel.
That depends what it is defining. It is defining petra, not petros.From the grammatical point of view, "this rock" must relate back to the closest noun. To say "this rock" refers to Jesus or Peter's faith/confession is to completely ignore the structure of the sentence. Here is an analogy, I have a care and a truck, and it is black. Which is black? The truck, because that is the noun closest to the pronoun it. This would be even clearer if the reference to the car were two sentences earlier, as Peter’s profession is two sentences earlier than the word rock.
Hebrew and Aramaic expressions are introduced to us in the Gospel of John. And everytime John uses one, he interprets for us what they mean. That is how we know that his name means "stone." The Bible (specifically John), tells us that is what it means. Your argument is self-defeating. Here it is again:Back to the Aramaic agument, in Matthew 27:46, Jesus says, ‘Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani?’ That isn’t Greek; it’s Aramaic, and it means, ‘My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?’ Also the 4 times in Galatians and 1 Corinthians, the Aramaic form of Simon's new name is preserved for us. In the English bibles its Cephas, this is not Greek. That's the transliteration of the Aramaic work Kepha
It was a play on words. Jesus is the rock; Peter is the stone. Jesus was pointing out the difference between him and Peter (a stone).Another point is that Peter said You are the Christos, and Jesus says "you are the Petros." There is just a parallelism there. Peter said you are the Son of the Living God and Jesus says you are the son of Jonah. Simon you are Petros (rock).
I disagree with you completely because Scripture disagrees with you.Aash said:The key question here is whether the rock foundation of the church is Peter himself, or something to be distinguished from Peter. If the latter, Jesus could be speaking of Peter's faith, or of the revelation Peter received. It is more likely, however, that the rock on which Jesus promises to build the church is in fact Peter himself, Peter the first disciple (cf. 4:18; 10:2), who represents the whole group of disciples from which the church will be formed.”
This verse actually supports his claim about the use of Kepha for Peter and that there was no distinction between Large Stone and small stone unless translated into greek.John 1:42 And he brought him to Jesus. And when Jesus beheld him, he said, Thou art Simon the son of Jona: thou shalt be called Cephas, which is by interpretation, A stone.
--Is there a reason that you keep on ignoring the definition that Jesus himself gives to Peter or Kephas. It is he that defines Cephas. And it his definition that we must use.