Pharaohs and Mosses

[agedman]

I realize that some would consider that Ramses (I or II) the pharaoh(s) of Moses' time.

According to Judaism 101 (http://www.jewfaq.org/moshe.htm), "Moses was born on 7 Adar in the year 2368 from Creation (circa 1400 BCE)."

It would then seem that Amenhotep II who ruled from about 1425 to about 1400, may probably be the pharaoh that issued the decree about destroying all the male babies - his daughter rescuing the baby Moses.

Giving a bit of flexibility to the birth day of Moses, Amenhotep II would have died that year of perhaps the year after that decree and Moses would have grown up with what I would assume would have been Amenhotep III (though some think that the heir to the throne - Thutmose - was the Moses of the Scriptures.

The grandson (I think) of Amenhotep II was Amenhotep IV which I think is also known as Akhenaten and would then have been the pharaoh of the Exodus.

These ideas are not factual, but merely speculation.

It is possible that Amenhotep III was the young pharaoh heir that died on the night of the first passover.

It seems strange to me that such an important events as Joseph and Moses have no record in the writings of Egypt that I know

Has anyone done any significant work on this topic and come up with their own thinking?

 

[beameup]

There was an interesting documentary on PBS called "A Hyksos Plot to Crush Egypt".
The Assyrians - Hyksos - had conquered the delta and forced the true Egyptians to retreat to Thebes and form the
"Middle Kingdom". To the south - "upper Egypt" were the Nubians. Two scouts were sent from the "lower Egypt" Hyksos Empire
to the Nubians with a plot to CRUSH the "Middle Kingdom". It seems that the scouts were intercepted as recorded, and
the Middle Kingdom made preparations for war to drive out the Hyksos. The war was successful and Lower Egypt - the delta - once
again came under true Egyptian rule.

Now, if you piece together that the Hyksos were SEMITES, then it makes sense why they would elevate Joseph to
Prime Minister of Egypt (lower Egypt) as he was of the same "race" as the Hyksos. As well, Joseph's kin, the Hebrews,
were preferred by the Hyksos so as to prevent a rebellion.

Now, if you consider that the "Middle Kingdom" drove out the Hyksos, then you can see why the Hebrews would be persecuted
by the "true Egyptians" once they retook the delta region - "Lower Egypt".

I'm not sure about all of the dates, but the entire documented story has been found in hieroglyphics.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJ6EnooTQL4&playnext=1&list=PLC761CA445A7ABB00&index=5

 

[Amy.G]

Now, if you piece together that the Hyksos were SEMITES, then it makes sense why they would elevate Joseph to
Prime Minister of Egypt (lower Egypt) as he was of the same "race" as the Hyksos. As well, Joseph's kin, the Hebrews,
were preferred by the Hyksos so as to prevent a rebellion.

Uh no. Joseph was elevated to his position by God, for God's purposes.


(I thought this thread was about ancient horticulture...."mosses" :laugh

 

[beameup]

Uh no. Joseph was elevated to his position by God, for God's purposes.

Uh no. Pharaoh was elevated to his position by God, for God's purposes.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have found that it is best to "think things through" before posting,
as that often makes one look more intelligent and cognizant. :wavey:

 

[The Archangel]

I've done a bit of research in this area (though, admittedly, not enough to satisfy myself). I became very interested in this while preaching through Genesis, and I wanted to know who Joseph's Pharaoh was.

As I discovered, the problem with dating the Joseph's Pharaoh and Pharaoh of the Exodus is that the Egyptian timelines of dynasties are notoriously unreliable.

It seems to be the case that Egypt was a divided kingdom for many years. So, it's possible that certain dynasties were concurrent in geographically dissimilar places.

In researching Viziers in Egypt, a very attractive "Joseph" appears in the Vizier known as Imhotep. Imhotep had dreams, built huge grain storehouses, ended a severe famine, etc. However, according to the accepted chronology, Imhotep lived in the 27th Century BC in the 3rd Dynasty--long before any "Joseph" should be on the scene.

But, some Egyptologists suggest that the some of the dynasties, rather than being sequential, were actually concurrent. This means that it's possible the Dynasties and Kingdoms of Egypt were not quite as long as the modern, conventional chronology suggests.

Of course, the Hyksos present an easy "bridge" to the Egyptian dealings with the Israelites. But, if memory serves, there are significant problems with this timing.

I haven't done this in a few months...but all one has to do is count back from the dedication of Solomon's temple to the Exodus. God's appearance to Abraham in Genesis 12 happened 430 years before the Exodus.

Of course, one has to wade through the opinions about Egyptian chronology too. I could SO spend years studying Egyptology!

Ultimately, in short, there is no consensus.

Blessings,

The Archangel

 

[beameup]

This is from Wikipedia:
During his reign, Ahmose I completed the conquest and expulsion of the Hyksos from the delta region, restored Theban [Thebes] rule
over the whole of Egypt and successfully reasserted Egyptian power in its formerly subject territories of Nubia and Canaan.
Ahmose's reign laid the foundations for the New Kingdom, under which Egyptian power reached its peak. His reign is usually dated
to the mid-16th century BC.
Ahmose's reign can be fairly accurately dated using the Heliacal rise of Sirius in his successor's reign, but because of disputes
over from where the observation was made, he has been assigned a reign from 1570–1546, 1560–1537 and 1551–1527
by various sources. excerpts http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmose_I

If this fits then this is the Pharaoh who "knew not Joseph".
Now there arose up a new king over Egypt, which knew not Joseph. Exodus 1:8

From the PBS special, it appears that the Middle Kingdom was very fertile and so "coexisted" with the Hyksos in the delta -
Lower Egypt - for quite awhile UNTIL the plot was uncovered that the Hyksos wanted to unite with the Nubians - Upper Egypt -
and crush the Middle Kingdom centered in Thebes.

 

[agedman]

This is from Wikipedia:
During his reign, Ahmose I completed the conquest and expulsion of the Hyksos from the delta region, restored Theban [Thebes] rule
over the whole of Egypt and successfully reasserted Egyptian power in its formerly subject territories of Nubia and Canaan.
Ahmose's reign laid the foundations for the New Kingdom, under which Egyptian power reached its peak. His reign is usually dated
to the mid-16th century BC.
Ahmose's reign can be fairly accurately dated using the Heliacal rise of Sirius in his successor's reign, but because of disputes
over from where the observation was made, he has been assigned a reign from 1570–1546, 1560–1537 and 1551–1527
by various sources. excerpts http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmose_I

If this fits then this is the Pharaoh who "knew not Joseph".
Now there arose up a new king over Egypt, which knew not Joseph. Exodus 1:8

From the PBS special, it appears that the Middle Kingdom was very fertile and so "coexisted" with the Hyksos in the delta -
Lower Egypt - for quite awhile UNTIL the plot was uncovered that the Hyksos wanted to unite with the Nubians - Upper Egypt -
and crush the Middle Kingdom centered in Thebes.

1570 - 1527?

Wouldn't that be 170 to 127 years before the birth of Moses?

Not that you didn't, but to remind the folks that the larger the number, the farther before in time from BCE the same as the higher the number the farther after in time from the BCE.

So, BCE the years are like a countdown to BCE, and after the CE starts the years start the count up.

 

[beameup]

1570 - 1527?

Wouldn't that be 170 to 127 years before the birth of Moses?

Not that you didn't, but to remind the folks that the larger the number, the farther before in time from BCE the same as the higher the number the farther after in time from the BCE.

So, BCE the years are like a countdown to BCE, and after the CE starts the years start the count up.

I've heard other dates proposed from Jewish sources.
The circumstances of Ahmose I seem to fit, that's all I'm saying.
I'm sure that prior to, or early into, the Tribulation, the indisputable facts will come out.