Philippians 3:12

[DHK]

First Accusation:

I do not have a problem, you do.

Second Accusation:

It is true you do promote sinfulness.

Third Accusation:

Again, you are an accuser of the brethren.

Fourth Accusation:

You speak twisted gobbledygook.

If you got an infraction for every personal attack like this you would be banned by now. You need to stop.

 

[The Biblicist]

Sorry. I didn't mean to derail the thread

No, I am sorry. I didn't mean for you to take my words as an accusation that you were attempting to derail the thread. I was simply stating what I thought was obvious that WE were going away from the OP. I did start another thread.

however with the second part of the verse in mind how does that apply to your questions. Your questions seem irrelevant with that in view.

The way I would answer your question is that though we cannot attain perfection in this world Jesus wants us to perservere in becoming like him.

Again, if you look at my original post you will see that I directly addressed the second half of that text. I understand "salvation" to cover lots of ground. However, within that giant unbrella term "salvation" there are individual aspects that are unique from each other but yet consistent with each other. They are unique in regard to cause and effect relationship with other aspects. They are unique in regard to their actual time applications. They are unique in regard to their applications of different aspects of my very being. They are unique in regard to different aspects of soteriology. So "salvation" is a term thrown loosely around that should not be so casually applied to everything and anything in particular without some distinguishing characteristics and applications noted.

I have said all that to say this. Progressive aspect of salvation is simply just that - progressive. Hence, it means as long as you are progressing toward something you have not yet attained it. If that goal is perfection then you are still imperfect. I apply Philip 2:10-13 to that aspect of salvation commonly referred to as "progressive sanctification" in regard to your soul/life.

Now, note I did not say justification or regeneration or glorification as these are to be distinguished from progressive sanctification but are all under the same umbrella term "salvation" but yet according to distinctions of time (past versus present or present versus future) and according to distinctions of application (regeneration of the spirit versus progressive sanctification of the soul/life OR progressive santificaiton of the soul/life versus glorification of the body).

So, I place both halves of Philippians 2:12 in the area of salvation of the life/soul dealing with progressive sanctification. I have not attained perfection but I am pressing toward that mark because that is my final reality in glorificaiton and it is my responsibility here and now and it is the very nature of the new creation inside of me that delights in the law of God and is created in true holiness and righteousness so that nothing less satisfies my expectation or desire. So I see no conflict between the first and second half in regard to my soteriology thus viewed.

 

[billwald]

Paul is continually WORKING out HIS salvation in fear and trembling. No one is sinless or perfect. We are all working on our salvations.

 

[The Biblicist]

Paul is continually WORKING out HIS salvation in fear and trembling. No one is sinless or perfect. We are all working on our salvations.

In regard to our own person you are correct (Philip. 2:12) but in regard to our position "in Christ" we are sinless simply because He is sinless and His righteousness is imputed to us by faith - hence justification by faith.

In regard to our own person you are correct (Philip 2:12) as progressive sanctification includes our person but how it is worked out is described in Philippians 2:13 by the power of the indwelling Spirit of God Who both works in us to "WILL" and to "DO" of His good pleasure and so anything worked out is by the power of God and according to His purpose and grace. Everything we work out in our own power is nothing but filthy rags of unrighteousness (Isa. 64:5-6).

 

[Moriah]

First Accusation:




If you got an infraction for every personal attack like this you would be banned by now. You need to stop.

You need to stop. I speak the truth, even though your threats of banning. Do you not have something better to do with your time? Why do you follow me around and go through my postings? You show yourself for the unfair false judger that you are. Why do you not go through yours and Biblicists comments to me and make a list of everything you both have said to me?

 

[DHK]

You need to stop. I speak the truth, even though your threats of banning. Do you not have something better to do with your time? Why do you follow me around and go through my postings? You show yourself for the unfair false judger that you are. Why do you not go through yours and Biblicists comments to me and make a list of everything you both have said to me?

Post #21 is not truth. It is a sinful attack on a poster that has at the very minimum 4 sinful accusations against another brother. In another post you had 11 such accusations. You say you are sinless, and yet you wallow in sin by such posts as this, and remain unrepentant.

Take the warning of Jesus:
Matthew 12:36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
Matthew 12:37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

 

[DHK]

You show yourself for the unfair false judger that you are. Why do you not go through yours and Biblicists comments to me and make a list of everything you both have said to me?

This is not facing one's responsibility. I had a daughter like this. If she was caught doing something wrong she would immediately try and deflect the subject to her brother--but he did thus and thus. The subject is not another poster, it is you and your wrong. You need to face up to your own wrong and your own responsibility.
When God confronted Adam, he blamed Eve.
You have no one to blame for you Godless speech but yourself. Don't point fingers at others for what you yourself have posted.

 

[Moriah]

This is not facing one's responsibility. I had a daughter like this. If she was caught doing something wrong she would immediately try and deflect the subject to her brother--but he did thus and thus.

When God confronted Adam, he blamed Eve.

[edited for rudeness and slander]

Maybe the apple did not fall far from the tree.

 

[DHK]

Maybe the apple did not fall far from the tree.

Who said it was an apple?
Adam still had to face up to his own sin of rebellion.

 

[Moriah]

Who said it was an apple?
Adam still had to face up to his own sin of rebellion.

lol...you know what I said was funny. You set yourself up big time for that one.

 

[DHK]

lol...you know what I said was funny. You set yourself up big time for that one.

This is not a game Moriah.
If you can't conduct yourself in a manner becoming that of a Christian then don't post at all. This is the WEB. Hundreds, if not thousands read what you say. If you don't make changes to the way that you post I will present this problem to the administration.

Please take heed.
Now go back to the OP.

 

[Moriah]

This is the WEB. Hundreds, if not thousands read what you say.

Now go back to the OP.

[DHK's post was edited for rudeness and slander]

I will be leaving this group soon.

 

[Michael Wrenn]

I will be leaving this group soon.

Don't leave. I like balance. You help provide some of that.

 

[The Biblicist]

Don't leave. I like balance. You help provide some of that.

Balance is not the issue here! Honesty is the issue! You cannot honestly charge others with guilt for making personal attacks on you when you are doing the very same thing. That is called hypocrisy! When you are faced with the evidence of such hypocrisy as Moriah was faced with his own quotations and then deny it - that is a question of honesty and dishonesty does not bring balance to anything.

 

[Michael Wrenn]

Balance is not the issue here! Honesty is the issue! You cannot honestly charge others with guilt for making personal attacks on you when you are doing the very same thing. That is called hypocrisy! When you are faced with the evidence of such hypocrisy as Moriah was faced with his own quotations and then deny it - that is a question of honesty and dishonesty does not bring balance to anything.

I was simply asking him not to leave; I like to see more than one viewpoint.

 

[Moriah]

Don't leave. I like balance. You help provide some of that.

Wow, I did not expect that. Thank you, Michael. I feel though that DHK and Biblicist twist what I say so much so that most people will not understand what I believe.
Thanks again, for asking me to stay.

 

[Michael Wrenn]

Wow, I did not expect that. Thank you, Michael. I feel though that DHK and Biblicist twist what I say so much so that most people will not understand what I believe.
Thanks again, for asking me to stay.

You are quite welcome.

I myself have been the target of nasty attacks here; I don't like it when it happens to me or anyone else.

We need differing viewpoints. That's what makes for lively discussion. Further, engaging people with those differing viewpoints is educational and enlightening and can often help us clarify our own views.

Still, I've about decided I don't fit in here, nor on liberal forums. So, I may leave as I'm find it counterproductive to be here.

I've probably caused site traffic to increase since I've returned.

It's rather sad, though, what goes on here. But maybe if I leave, there will be more peace since there'll be one less person to make waves.

 

[The Biblicist]

You are quite welcome.

I myself have been the target of nasty attacks here; I don't like it when it happens to me or anyone else.

We need differing viewpoints. That's what makes for lively discussion. Further, engaging people with those differing viewpoints is educational and enlightening and can often help us clarify our own views.

Still, I've about decided I don't fit in here, nor on liberal forums. So, I may leave as I'm find it counterproductive to be here.

I've probably caused site traffic to increase since I've returned.

It's rather sad, though, what goes on here. But maybe if I leave, there will be more peace since there'll be one less person to make waves.

Personally what I believe makes "waves" is the failure to directly deal with the explicit Biblical evidence placed before you. Instead of directly dealing with the explicit evidence before you in an exegetical manner, you resort to a philosophical response and/or simply ignore the evidence or what I describe as a pit scripture against scripture or run and jump response. That in turn causes a lot of frustration in those who are dealing with your responses. This is particular true in regard to the way Moriah and HP responds as well. What you guys get back is built up frustration caused by your refusal to deal directly with the explicit evidence and/or a pit scripture against scripture response or a jump and pit type response. These responses make it impossible to contextually deal with any scripture as it promotes an endless cycle of jumping, pitting and ignoring type of mentality. That causes real frustration in those who want an objective handling of a text in its context according to an exegetical manner.

 

[Moriah]

You are quite welcome.

I myself have been the target of nasty attacks here; I don't like it when it happens to me or anyone else.

We need differing viewpoints. That's what makes for lively discussion. Further, engaging people with those differing viewpoints is educational and enlightening and can often help us clarify our own views.

Still, I've about decided I don't fit in here, nor on liberal forums. So, I may leave as I'm find it counterproductive to be here.

I've probably caused site traffic to increase since I've returned.

It's rather sad, though, what goes on here. But maybe if I leave, there will be more peace since there'll be one less person to make waves.

You helped me realize that not fitting in here is a good thing. Please do not leave. I do recommend breaks from this place though.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Biblicist, may I say how i appreciate and admire your PATIENCE and constant faith in Christ, despite elements of distraction and instigation.