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'Pilgrims Progress' is for adults, not children!
- Thread starter procyon
- Start date
"Some of the information on the orionsgate site is certainly wrong.
To be specific.
"Second only to the Bible, what book has sold more copies, has been translated into more languages, has gone through more editions"--------------------------------------------------------
Mioque, I think when this claim is made they are referring only to English language books.
To be specific.
"Second only to the Bible, what book has sold more copies, has been translated into more languages, has gone through more editions"--------------------------------------------------------
Mioque, I think when this claim is made they are referring only to English language books.
Do you know John Bunyan knew the Word of God in an inward way? He could see it from inside. Most of are outside, looking in. That is the reason why many of us don't relate to Pilgrim's Progress. The Christian life is a battle, as Bunyan rightly saw it. But for the modern evangelistic Christian, it seems to be 'plain sailing' as he navigates through formulae, creeds, Sunday observance, formal reading of the Bible, performing religious rites, etc - without ever coming into contact with the living Christ!
NaasPreacher (C4K)
Well-Known Member
Agreed.
NaasPreacher (C4K)
Well-Known Member
Perhaps, because being "in touch with the living Christ" has little to do with reading Pilgrims Progress.
Bunyon
If we are talking just about English, well...
When it comes to sold more copies I'll happily take your word for it. Sounds eminently plausible.
But translated into more languages after the Bible sounds weird.
PP is a work of English literature and the Bible isn't.
That would mean translations of English editions of the Bible into other languages are the most often made English to another language translations on earth.
I know there are some political activists out there who want all other Bibles on earth to be translated from the KJB, but still.
If we are talking just about English, well...
When it comes to sold more copies I'll happily take your word for it. Sounds eminently plausible.
But translated into more languages after the Bible sounds weird.
PP is a work of English literature and the Bible isn't.
That would mean translations of English editions of the Bible into other languages are the most often made English to another language translations on earth.
I know there are some political activists out there who want all other Bibles on earth to be translated from the KJB, but still.
Hey all.
Put this it the "for what it is worth" file.
There is a volume of "The Pilgrim's Progress in Modern English." I have just finished it myself. It is put out by Bridge-Logos Publishers in Gaineville, FL. The US Library of Congress # is 98-72704 and the ISBN # is 0-88270-757-4. It was put out in 1998.
It also has "Part Second," the Journey of Christiana and the Children. It also has all of the Scripture references even to the nuanced sections of the dialogue and such.
I have just finished it. I love it dearly. I read it over and over again. For those who want it in modern English this is your choice. I believe it does "loose something in the translation" if it is not read in the original English.
For those who do not know, he was a "Doctrines of Grace" man (Calvinist Soteriologically). If it is read with a strong view of God's sovereignty as a backdrop or motif, it will certainly put a different slant on the primary issues of the book and Bunyan's persecution.
I had to give or teach a doctoral seminar on Bunyan in my doctoral work. I really loved reading him, his work, and secondary works about him. I still have that graduate paper around here if anyone might want a copy of it. Just email me or pm me.
May I also recommend "Grace Abounding to the Chief of Sinners." This is the closest thing to Bunyan's testimony. Most do not know that he wrote over 50 books. All are excellent, but are like reading CS Lewis! For the average reader, they must be worked through very slowly.
I hope this helps.
sdg!
rd
Put this it the "for what it is worth" file.
There is a volume of "The Pilgrim's Progress in Modern English." I have just finished it myself. It is put out by Bridge-Logos Publishers in Gaineville, FL. The US Library of Congress # is 98-72704 and the ISBN # is 0-88270-757-4. It was put out in 1998.
It also has "Part Second," the Journey of Christiana and the Children. It also has all of the Scripture references even to the nuanced sections of the dialogue and such.
I have just finished it. I love it dearly. I read it over and over again. For those who want it in modern English this is your choice. I believe it does "loose something in the translation" if it is not read in the original English.
For those who do not know, he was a "Doctrines of Grace" man (Calvinist Soteriologically). If it is read with a strong view of God's sovereignty as a backdrop or motif, it will certainly put a different slant on the primary issues of the book and Bunyan's persecution.
I had to give or teach a doctoral seminar on Bunyan in my doctoral work. I really loved reading him, his work, and secondary works about him. I still have that graduate paper around here if anyone might want a copy of it. Just email me or pm me.
May I also recommend "Grace Abounding to the Chief of Sinners." This is the closest thing to Bunyan's testimony. Most do not know that he wrote over 50 books. All are excellent, but are like reading CS Lewis! For the average reader, they must be worked through very slowly.
I hope this helps.
sdg!
rd
NaasPreacher (C4K)
Well-Known Member
Don't neglect the orignal - I think you will be blessed.
This is with reference to some comments made on my initial thread.
1. 'It is an adult book, with teachings even a child can understand' C4K. My response: A child may like the story, but cannot understand the teaching. It is not easy even for an adult to 'leave the perishing world'.
2. 'There are many adults who understand the amazing message of PP' C4K. My response: If they understood the message of PP, it should change their lives, and like Abraham they should leave Babylon and not settle down at Haran.
3. What is the teaching of PP? That we should leave this perishing world, this defiled and corrupt world which is under the judgment of God. How many are prepared to do so? Many of us like Demas have gone back into the world.
1. 'It is an adult book, with teachings even a child can understand' C4K. My response: A child may like the story, but cannot understand the teaching. It is not easy even for an adult to 'leave the perishing world'.
2. 'There are many adults who understand the amazing message of PP' C4K. My response: If they understood the message of PP, it should change their lives, and like Abraham they should leave Babylon and not settle down at Haran.
3. What is the teaching of PP? That we should leave this perishing world, this defiled and corrupt world which is under the judgment of God. How many are prepared to do so? Many of us like Demas have gone back into the world.
NaasPreacher (C4K)
Well-Known Member
1. I disagree - my children have read PP at a young age and have learned its lessons and applied to them to their lives. Other children have done so as well. Just because the number is few does not mean it does not happen.
2. You imply that no one is changed by PP. There are many people whose lives have been impacted by reading PP. Who have left Haran. PP cannot do this alone, they must also spend time in the word of God. The problem is those individuals who read PP without God's word.
3. Agreed. Yet, there is a remnant who are willing to forsake this present world.
The problem here is the hasty generalisation in your comments. I agree that not enough people read PP properly, but that does not mean that no one does.
2. You imply that no one is changed by PP. There are many people whose lives have been impacted by reading PP. Who have left Haran. PP cannot do this alone, they must also spend time in the word of God. The problem is those individuals who read PP without God's word.
3. Agreed. Yet, there is a remnant who are willing to forsake this present world.
The problem here is the hasty generalisation in your comments. I agree that not enough people read PP properly, but that does not mean that no one does.
standingfirminChrist
New Member
Pilgrims Progress by John Bunyan. An excellent book. If read with a mind of not rushing through, bot adults and children can enjoy this wonderful novel.
A child cannot understand the teaching. Even a child of God [one who is born again] cannot understand the teaching, unless by the grace of God, his eyes are open to the Cross of our Lord Jesus Christ. Only crucified Christians, crucified to the world and to the flesh and self, can understand what it means to leave this perishing world.
The point is that the Pilgrims Progress is a spiritual book and can be understand only by those who have the Spirit of God. It is not the Bible, but spiritual books are understood only by spiritual people.
The point is that the Pilgrims Progress is a spiritual book and can be understand only by those who have the Spirit of God. It is not the Bible, but spiritual books are understood only by spiritual people.
C4K, there is no 'hasty generalization' in my comments. I am speaking with all seriousness. Our Lord Jesus Christ Himself said that we are not of this world, and therefore the world will hate us. [You know what happened in Vanity Fair.]
Kindly consider the spirit in which I am making my comments, and avoid hasty responses. I would go so far as to say that only mature believers in Christ [referred to as 'sons' in the New Testament] understand the true meaning of Pilgrim's Progress. Sad to say that very few of the younger generation recognize the truths of PP.[This is evidenced by the declining sales of this great book in recent decades.]
Kindly consider the spirit in which I am making my comments, and avoid hasty responses. I would go so far as to say that only mature believers in Christ [referred to as 'sons' in the New Testament] understand the true meaning of Pilgrim's Progress. Sad to say that very few of the younger generation recognize the truths of PP.[This is evidenced by the declining sales of this great book in recent decades.]
NaasPreacher (C4K)
Well-Known Member
I would disagree to some extent. I find it a vital tool in helping people develop spiritual majority. One must be willing and striving to learn while reading, but it is not exclusively for the spiritual mature. There are great areas of weakness in my spiritual maturity and every time I read PP the Lord points them out for me to deal with. To say that children cannot do the same is indeed a generalisation unless you can point out where the author says that he wrote the book only for already spiritually mature adults. I see it as a tremendous tool to teach the importance of growth in Christ. It is not "only" for those who are already there.
Now this I can agree with 100%.
I think we have a problem here. Being a born again Christian, I expected to find more people who speak my language. The Bible makes it very clear that there are spiritual people, those born of the Spirit. John Bunyan was a spiritual man. His book has to be understood on a spiritual level [I am not saying 'mystical', remember! Being spiritual is being very practical and very true to God.]
You can read Pilgrims Progress as a story, but it will not help you much. It is when you understand the ALLEGORY and the basic conditions of a Victorious Christian Life that you can get the maximum benefit from this book.
The problem is that the modern age has trivialized this wonderful book by saying that it is great for children, when actually it is to be read, digested and understood by ADULTS.
Emphatically,
Procyon
You can read Pilgrims Progress as a story, but it will not help you much. It is when you understand the ALLEGORY and the basic conditions of a Victorious Christian Life that you can get the maximum benefit from this book.
The problem is that the modern age has trivialized this wonderful book by saying that it is great for children, when actually it is to be read, digested and understood by ADULTS.
Emphatically,
Procyon