Frankly Grasshopper I don't care if Gordon Lightfoot disagrees with me as well. I could also list many theologians that disagree with your Preterist view. So what?
Does Jack VanImpe really count as a theologian?
I like your Gordon Lightfoot reference.
I showed you those commentators because you said this about 2 Peter 3:
I would have to say that any honest preterist has to admit that the last part of this prophesy hasn't come to pass yet. At least I hope so.
So far you have incorrectly said that Zech. 12 was fulfilled in 70AD when it is clear that just the opposite of that prophesy states came to pass in 70AD.
Actually we were speaking of Zech 12:10 which John says was fulfilled at the Cross. It was at this point you started expressing your theories of gaps and double fulfillments. Why are there passages in Zech 12 and 13 that have their fulfillment in the NT if it is still future to us? Keep in mind the Bible speaks of two Jerusalems and notice all the "in that day" references of Zech 12-14. I don't think you can split it into separate pieces.
And you argued that John the Baptist was the end time Elijah when Jesus clearly put forth this qualifier in Mt. 11:14: "And if ye will receive it (the kingdom), this is Elias, which was for to come." Well, did Israel receive the Kingdom? No. Acts 28:17-31. So then, John was not the end time Elijah.
You better re-read Malachi 4. John was the fulfillment of that prophecy.
Why do you assume the “it” means the Kingdom? Jesus says John was the Elijah:
Mat 17:10 And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elias must first come?
Mat 17:11 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things.
Mat 17:12 But I say unto you,
That Elias is come already , and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.
Mat 17:13 Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist.
The coming Elijah nor the Kingdom were conditional on Jewish acceptance.
Furthermore, I’m not sure the word “it” was even in the original texts.
Well, did Israel receive the Kingdom? No. Acts 28:17-31.
Spiritual Israel did.
Act 28:23 And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening.
Act 28:24 And some believed the things which were spoken, and some believed not.
The Kingdom was not conditional despite what LaHaye and others say. The Kingdom wasn’t postponed; it was given to another nation:
Mat 21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
When and how does this happen in your dispie interpretation? When is Matt 21:43 fulfilled?
And BTW, you incorrectly bolded the later end of verse 14 in your post on page 1. How could you have read this passage and not seen the requirement for Israel to receive Christ and His Kingdom for the latter part of the verse to be fulfilled? Your eyes see what you want them to see. Mt. 11:15
So where exactly in verse 15 does it say the Kingdom was conditional on Jewish belief?
11:12 And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.
Mat 11:13 For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.
Mat 11:14 And if ye will receive it, this is Elias, which was for to come.
Mat 11:15 He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.
Seems the only ones who recognized that John was Elijah were those who’s ears were opened. Today, it seems that the Dispies are still waiting for their ears to be opened.
Can you show me passages that state the Kingdom of God was conditional on Jewish acceptance? Dan. 2 mentions the establishment of the Kingdom, is it stated there? Perhaps read Ps. 2:1-4 to see how God reacts to rejection.
You also incorrectly argued that the Jews saw Jesus coming to judge Jerusalem in 70AD when Rev. 1:7 clearly states that everyone, Jews and Gentiles alike, will see Him coming in the clouds.
His coming was not His physical presence but His coming in Judgment on Jerusalem. Jesus told the Sanhedrin they would see His coming on the clouds, did they??
Mat 26:63 But Jesus held his peace. And the high priest answered and said unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of God.
Mat 26:64 Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.
So did they see it?
You also never answered my question regarding Rev 1:1,3. Why as a literalist do you take Rev 1:7 out of the time-frame that is given to us in Rev 1:1,3?
Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants
things which must shortly come to pass ; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
Rev 1:3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the
time is at hand .
Now interpret Rev 1:7 within the time context it is given in.
And also a 200 million man army was a ridiculous notion until present day China came along.
Rev 9:16 And the number of the army of the horsemen were two hundred thousand thousand: and I heard the number of them.
Remember you also need 200 million horses. Does China have those as well?
Now for the literal translation:
Re 9:16 and the number of the forces of the horsemen [is] two myriads of myriads, and I heard the number of them.
Do some research on what a myriad is.
Besides, this knowledge will be increased by God. Unless you don't believe Dan. 12:4.
Dan 12:4 But you, O Daniel, shut up the words and seal the book, even to the time of the end. Many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.
1.Why was Daniel told to seal up his book and John was told not to seal his?
Rev 22:10 And he said to me, Do not seal the Words of the prophecy of this Book; for the time is at hand.
2.Was end that Daniel spoke of different than the one Peter spoke of?
1Pe 4:7 But the end of all things is at hand: be ye therefore sober, and watch unto prayer.
3. Knowledge is in reference to the Gospel/New Covenant message, not algebra and physics.
Luk 1:77 To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins,
Rom 15:14 And I myself also am persuaded of you, my brethren, that ye also are full of goodness, filled with all knowledge, able also to admonish one another.
2Co 4:6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.
Co 8:7 Therefore, as ye abound in every thing, in faith, and utterance, and knowledge, and in all diligence, and in your love to us, see that ye abound in this grace also.
Eph 1:17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:
2Pe 3:18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.
Another sign will be the exponential increase of technical knowledge that is clearly evident starting in the late 19th century and continues today.
Don't suppose you have a scripture reference for this?
I would like to see from you or your fellow preterists a Scripture referrence from anywhere in the book of Acts where any of those things came to pass that day, or that week.
Apparently you missed my earlier post.
Act 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,
Fulfilled:
Act 21:9 And the same man had four daughters, virgins, which did prophesy.
Act 21:10 And as we tarried there many days, there came down from Judaea a certain prophet, named Agabus.
and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
Fulfilled:
Act 9:10 And there was a certain disciple at Damascus, named Ananias; and to him said the Lord in a vision, Ananias. And he said, Behold, I am here, Lord.
Act 22:17 And it came to pass, that, when I was come again to Jerusalem, even while I prayed in the temple, I was in a trance;
Act 2:19 And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:
Act 2:20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood,
Figurative language right out of the OT. Referring to the dissolution of the Mosaic economy/Old Covenant. Perhaps you would like to answer the question of Is. 13:10. Was it fulfilled literally or has it even been fulfilled yet?
before that great and notable day of the Lord come:
The same day that Malachi told of and which Jesus said John was the fulfillment of Elijah.
Mal 4:5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and
dreadful day of the LORD:
Act 2:21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Fulfilled:
Act 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
Rom 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Of course I'm sure ther were many more examples that were not recorded in Scripture.
Now verse 2:32 in Joel and Acts 2:21 need no time frame since this truth now gets to be applied to future Israel when it becomes clear just Who their Lord is, and are willing to call upon the precious name of Jesus. Something that is anathema to them at the present time. Just like in 70AD.
Really, and I always thought the early Church was made up exclusively of Jews.
However, you just contradicted yourself, you said Acts 2:21 did come to pass:
Verse 2:21 came to pass as a future prophesy from Joel's time when Jesus clearly gave the Gospel in such places as John 6:40,46; 11:25-25, etc.
