Please explain this.

[SovereignGrace]

Your questions are irrelevant as to whether or not God deigns to answer their prayers. And I don't play the "answer me this" game.

All I am saying is that we're commanded(christians in that context) that when we pray, we pray in the name of Jesus. It is(as Brother TC previously posted) as authority. We pray in the name of Jesus in authority because we are His and His ears are open to our prayers and His eyes are always looking towards us. With the unregenerate, it is not so. His face is against them(not looking at them), and His ears are not attentitive until their prayers. He hates sin and sinners that much.

Now, those who do not serve Him, their prayers He will not answer. Why? They have not the authority to pray in the name of Jesus.

Carry this over to the gospel. Regeneration is solely the act of God apart from man's will. In this work of grace wrought upon their heart, faith, repentance and love are bestowed upon the sinner and then they exercise their will when they are saved. Man is passive in regeneration, but active in salvation, seeing their will has been changed by grace and they being born of God, are no longer His enemyy, no longing hating, but loving, Him.

 

[JonC]

Oxymoron.

Exactly!!!
That is my point with "regeneration leads to salvation" (there is never a time when one is regenerate yet lost, spiritually alive yet faithless....these are oxymoron).

 

[JonC]

...And one cannot have faith when spiritually dead, and enemy and hater of Christ.

One cannot be spiritually alive except that spiritual life be in Christ.

 

[InTheLight]

All I am saying is that we're commanded(christians in that context) that when we pray, we pray in the name of Jesus. It is(as Brother TC previously posted) as authority. We pray in the name of Jesus in authority because we are His and His ears are open to our prayers and His eyes are always looking towards us. With the unregenerate, it is not so. His face is against them(not looking at them), and His ears are not attentitive until their prayers. He hates sin and sinners that much.

So, none of these people had their prayers answered.

The thief on the cross.
The tax collector. Luke 18:13
Cornelius.
Anyone who calls on the name of the Lord Romans 10:13

 

[SovereignGrace]

I agree faith unto salvation is of God.

Good.

I disagree that regenerate man has no faith until it is gifted of God as I disagree that the Bible makes the distinction you claim here.

There is an innate faith that all ppls are born with. But there is a supernatural faith that is given at the moment someone is regenerated. That is what 2 Thessalonians 3:2 alludes to. Not all men have faith. Yet, the bible avers that God has chosen

Instead I believe that salvation as a whole (to include regeneration) is the mercy of the Father on the grounds of the Cross and in Christ, through faith worked by the Spirit in the lives of those who believe (Ezk. 36; Eph. 2). Where we disagree is I view faith as a continual work of the Spirit rather than a "gift" in the form of a product of regeneration.[/quote]
Faith is both instaneous and ongoing, just like repentance. One doesn't repent once and not any more. One who is progressively sanctified also has an ongoing faith.

Please provide the passage that has God regenerating men and afterwards gifting them with faith.

There are none. It is simultaneous.

 

[SovereignGrace]

So, none of these people had their prayers answered.

The thief on the cross.
The tax collector. Luke 18:13
Cornelius.
Anyone who calls on the name of the Lord Romans 10:13

Those who truly seek God have been regenerated. They now love Him, they have to have Him. Their lives are incomplete without Him. Those who love God have been(already happened) born of God. 1 John 4:7

 

[InTheLight]

Those who truly seek God have been regenerated.

Yes, you keep saying this, so it must be true.

"For whosoever God regenerates he will enable them to call upon the name of the Lord." Calvins 10:13

 

[SovereignGrace]

Yes, you keep saying this, so it must be true.

"For whosoever God regenerates he will enable them to call upon the name of the Lord." Calvins 10:13

The thing is ppl in an unregenerate state do not want to call upon Him. They hate Him. Are His enemy.

Those who love Him have been born of Him. That is what 1 John 4:7 avers.

 

[JonC]

Good.


There is an innate faith that all ppls are born with. But there is a supernatural faith that is given at the moment someone is regenerated. That is what 2 Thessalonians 3:2 alludes to. Not all men have faith. Yet, the bible avers that God has chosen

Instead I believe that salvation as a whole (to include regeneration) is the mercy of the Father on the grounds of the Cross and in Christ, through faith worked by the Spirit in the lives of those who believe (Ezk. 36; Eph. 2). Where we disagree is I view faith as a continual work of the Spirit rather than a "gift" in the form of a product of regeneration.
Faith is both instaneous and ongoing, just like repentance. One doesn't repent once and not any more. One who is progressively sanctified also has an ongoing faith.


There are none. It is simultaneous.

I don't think that that's where we disagree, brother. I would add that regeneration (like faith, being an aspect of salvation) is also an ongoing act. We are new creaturess, but we are not yet what we will become. We are in the process of being made into the image of Christ. Often in Scripture we are presented with salvation, but what we are presented with is a final state of salvation. I agree that there is a sense whereby salvation is a continual process (to include faith).

True faith (faith unto salvation) endures unto the end. I believe that this is often what the apostles spoke of when they spoke of faith. The faith that endures is the faith that is wrought of God because what God begins He completes. Likewise, true regeneration finds it's final state when we are resurrected in the image of Christ. The event of a lost man being saved is the precursor to a life being saved which find's its fulfillment in that final state of salvation.

My argument was simply that in each case regeneration does not lead to salvation but instead is itself a vital and interdependent aspect of salvation.

 

[InTheLight]

The thing is ppl in an unregenerate state do not want to call upon Him. They hate Him. Are His enemy.

Those who love Him have been born of Him. That is what 1 John 4:7 avers.

So the millions of unregenerate people that go to church, pray, read their Bible, and study theology do so because they HATE God. Got it.

Oh yeah, these same people are not seeking God either.

Sent from my Motorola Droid Turbo.

 

[SovereignGrace]

So the millions of unregenerate people that go to church, pray, read their Bible, and study theology do so because they HATE God. Got it.

Oh yeah, these same people are not seeking God either.

They hate Him. You and I hated Him. We may not have hated Him in the way ppl hate their enemies, but hated Him in our deeds. Jesus said if we love Him keep His commands. We, as unregenerate ppl, hated Him because we could not and would not keep them. If we love Him, we will keep His commands to the best of our ability, even though we fall woefully short daily. Jesus lived the sinless life we could not live for us, on our behalf. We live because He lives.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Look at it like this ITL. Go up to a slobbering drunk and witness to him/her. Tell them the gospel as Paul laid out in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4. Unless God is working within them, they will turn you down. They will have no desire to be saved, being enslaved by sin. 1 Corinthians 2:14 and Romans 8:7-8 ring ever so true here.

The unregenerate want nothing to do with God. You brought up the millions who go to church who are unregenerate. That is sadly true, and I will never deny this. I have seen the tabloids where the likes of Britney Spears was spotted leaving church after a service. Yet, she is living a rebellious life. They have a god fashioned in their minds that is not the God of the bible, and the god fashioned in their minds is one who loves the sinner but hates the sin. The god they serve loves g@ys and is okay with them being married, because 'God is love', right? Vicki Gunvalson of 'Real Housewives of Orange County' avers she is going to heaven when she dies, saying she is a Christian. Yet, she was shacked up with a man whilst having 'relations' out of wedlock. She's been divorced three times, gets drunk, but she is going to heaven. Then another one attends Jentezen Franklin's church claiming to be a Christian. Yet she dresses provactively, and tends to drink too much. Another was recently baptized and they had to bleep out a bunch of her words.

Ppl fashion a god in their mind and worship him. But not the God of the bible.

 

[Internet Theologian]

Look at it like this ITL. Go up to a slobbering drunk and witness to him/her. Tell them the gospel as Paul laid out in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4. Unless God is working within them, they will turn you down. They will have no desire to be saved, being enslaved by sin. 1 Corinthians 2:14 and Romans 8:7-8 ring ever so true here.

The unregenerate want nothing to do with God. You brought up the millions who go to church who are unregenerate. That is sadly true, and I will never deny this. I have seen the tabloids where the likes of Britney Spears was spotted leaving church after a service. Yet, she is living a rebellious life. They have a god fashioned in their minds that is not the God of the bible, and the god fashioned in their minds is one who loves the sinner but hates the sin. The god they serve loves g@ys and is okay with them being married, because 'God is love', right? Vicki Gunvalson of 'Real Housewives of Orange County' avers she is going to heaven when she dies, saying she is a Christian. Yet, she was shacked up with a man whilst having 'relations' out of wedlock. She's been divorced three times, gets drunk, but she is going to heaven. Then another one attends Jentezen Franklin's church claiming to be a Christian. Yet she dresses provactively, and tends to drink too much. Another was recently baptized and they had to bleep out a bunch of her words.

Ppl fashion a god in their mind and worship him. But not the God of the bible.

Yep. These have been indoctrinated by the Grace of God = license to sin preachers. Deceiving and being deceived', 2 Timothy 3:5,13; Jude 1:4. Many today preach a person can live any way they want and still go to heaven. Scripture calls this damnable heresy.

 

[JonC]

So the millions of unregenerate people that go to church, pray, read their Bible, and study theology do so because they HATE God. Got it.

Oh yeah, these same people are not seeking God either.

Sent from my Motorola Droid Turbo.

Matthew 7:22 does come to mind. Perhaps they “hate” God is an overstatement in contemporary language (perhaps it is an understatement). They do not know God. Their minds and hearts are inclined towards themselves and not towards God. There is no difference between the worship of an unregenerate Baptist preacher and a Muslim jihadist in that both are seeking God on their own terms with the same spiritual result.

 

[JonC]

Many today preach a person can live any way they want and still go to heaven. Scripture calls this damnable heresy.

Who teaches this?

 

[TCassidy]

One cannot be spiritually alive except that spiritual life be in Christ.

Exactly. In Christ = alive. Not in Christ = dead in trespass and sin.

 

[TCassidy]

So the millions of unregenerate people that go to church, pray, read their Bible, and study theology do so because they HATE God.

How do you know they are unregenerate?

And if they are why do you disagree with Romans 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

Matthew 6:24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

Oh yeah, these same people are not seeking God either.

Romans 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

 

[TCassidy]

Exactly!!!
That is my point with "regeneration leads to salvation" (there is never a time when one is regenerate yet lost, spiritually alive yet faithless....these are oxymoron).

When has anyone claimed there is a time when one is regenerate but lost, or spiritually alive but faithless?

 

[JonC]

When has anyone claimed there is a time when one is regenerate but lost, or spiritually alive but faithless?

Regeneration leading to salvation (as the moment the lost person is saved) places regeneration outside of and prior to salvation. Regeneration coming before faith (in an order of things) places being "spiritually alive" outside of "in Christ" if being in Christ is accomplished by God through faith.

I have no problem with examining regeneration as enabling people to believe. But I also have no problem acknowledging that no one is regenerated who does not believe. These are two aspects of salvation that cannot be pulled apart (they are interdependent).

I am cautious, however, when some lean towards faith (in terms of salvation) as primarily evidence of salvation rather than salvation by grace through faith. A few comments seems to present the idea that a person is saved and then he comes to believe as evidence that he has indeed been saved. Hopefully I'm just being overly cautious.

 

[TCassidy]

You are not listening to what I am saying. You are listening to what you wished I had said.