Please help me to understand submissiveness. (My last word on this issue, I promise.)

[PJ]

Scarlett, there's no way I could live as some of the couples you've mentioned. My hair, clothing and yes weight, is my decision ... not my husbands. But neither does he want to make those decisions for me. When couples have true love and respect for each other, they just don't go there.

Others have added some great thoughts here, a product of deep thinking and living and learning. The examples have been most educational.

 

[El_Guero]

Truly stated. And also as others have pointed out, there are infinite differences in how couples live out the practicalities.
I have been married almost thirty years. My husband and I have the same values. I am hard-pressed to think of any major decision that we didn't agree on.
Sometimes when you see a wife who doesn't have time for her own interests, it is just the stage of life. I have more time than I used to have when my kids were very young. My husband works very long, hard hours. I don't expect him to do a lot at home. On the other hand, he is fine with me hiring jobs done so I don't have to do everything either.

If a husband feels like he has to make all sorts of decisions, SOMETIMES he might do well to slow down a little bit. Not all decisions are as monumental as they initially seem, and often it doesn't hurt to wait and pray till the couple is more in agreement.
. . .

Very true!

 

[Gold Dragon]

Couples have to evolve their own patterns of interaction. However it shakes out, the wife should be able to honestly say "I submit myself to my husband as unto the Lord, for he is my head even as Christ is the head of the church." It's a tall order. I'm glad I'm male.

I don't know about that last part. It is arguable that the guys have it tougher and I would say that husbands being disobedient to their biblical role is more common than wives being disobedent.

Husbands are to give up their lives for their wives.

Husbands are responsible for their own faults as well as their wives' faults.

Husbands are to love his wifes as he loves himself and his own body.

I would call those tall orders too.

NASB - Ephesians 5:25-33

Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself up for her, so that He might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, that He might present to Himself the church in all her glory, having no spot or wrinkle or any such thing; but that she would be holy and blameless.

So husbands ought also to love their own wives as their own bodies. He who loves his own wife loves himself; for no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as Christ also does the church, because we are members of His body.

FOR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND MOTHER AND SHALL BE JOINED TO HIS WIFE, AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH.

This mystery is great; but I am speaking with reference to Christ and the church. Nevertheless, each individual among you also is to love his own wife even as himself, and the wife must see to it that she respects her husband.

 

[Jim1999]

This is an interesting take on the role of women in a relationship:

http://www.cbeinternational.org/new/free_articles/biblical_submission.shtml

Cheers,

Jim

 

[Pipedude]

I would call those tall orders too.

Okay. But I'd still rather have those than the others.

 

[ituttut]

I still haven't gotten a clear understanding of what the people here think it means on a daily basis for women.

A canned answer should work here, but personalities are involved, and to fit the canned answer, a personality has to change, to fit the acceptable position in the matter. Sometimes both have arrogance (usually more so the man for he is frogs, and snails, and puppy dog tails), and pridefulness (usually more so the woman who is sugar, and spice, and everything nice).

You represent one thing, and that is yourself, with a mind of your own - doing your own thing (with the approval of your husband, of which you are a part of), and put your trust in him.

Your husband represents himself with a mind of his own, doing his own thing (with your approval for he made you a part of him), and is to trust you.

Enter what the man believes and has been taught and sees throughout the Bible, as does the woman. A wife that is submissive, yet strong willed within her operations, she bowing to his demands, and he bowing to hers. I think we see a very happy marriage in Abram/Abraham, and Sarai/Sarah as she obeys Abram to keep quite about their marriage, then later he obeys her in her desire to have a child from Abram, even of some other woman. Neither should have made their requests of the other, but they obeyed each other, trusting their judgment. They evidently had a long lasting intimate relationship for Sarah looks forward to again having pleasure. But we are to take note to whom God speaks, and makes promises; the head of the family.

We know marriage is a roller coaster being up on top of the rails, then down to the very bottom. And just as a roller coaster, a happy marriage can have all the thrills we can take. Our objective is to not jump off at the high points thinking we can stay there, or the low points, thinking we can never get up there again. Wait until the very end and we can say, wasn't that fun, very breath taking, and even scary at times. We work it out together.

A single person can devote the time to all others and be happy. We married cannot do this, as our commitment is also to our other half, and sad is the outcome when anything that comes between, whether family, children, friends, church, or that good looking stranger that takes an interest in us. Sometimes that "good looking stranger" may be come in the form of "covetousness" for it can give us what we want. In marriages with problems isn't it me, always wanting my way every time.

Submit. Submit to what? To what we submitted to which was our other half. But who is the boss in the Christian marriage today? I believe we all know, without question, when all avenues have been explored, there can only be one left standing, and it should be the man, but many do abdicate their rightful position. If not, two to one bet that there is no marriage left, for there is no turf worth defending any longer.

But can we find a couple in this dispensation that may fit the bill? I believe we can in Aquila and Priscilla as they work in unison presenting His Word in a more perfect way. It is here I believe we find the "submissiveness" we are looking for. Both submit to the Lord, and it will follow the couple will submit to each other, knowing their place within the family of God.

 

[mcdirector]

Thank you everyone for taking the time to respond.

I can only surmise that my question wasn't very clear. It's alright. Let's move on.

I thought your question was clear. I did my best to respond to it in a straight forward way. Perhaps our answers seem unclear to you because this is something that two people must work out between the two of them. When both are in agreement to what it means for the wife to be submissive, it is a non issue which would make it hard to describe. It is part of the ebb and flow of daily life. When the two have different opinions, it becomes a great issue in the marriage.

 

[El_Guero]

That is a really good answer!

I thought your question was clear. I did my best to respond to it in a straight forward way. Perhaps our answers seem unclear to you because this is something that two people must work out between the two of them. When both are in agreement to what it means for the wife to be submission, it is a none issue which would make it hard to describe. It is part of the ebb and flow of daily life. When the two have different opinions, it becomes a great issue in the marriage.

 

[El_Guero]

I gotta disgree!

I have met as many married couples (many with marital problems) that devoted more time and energy to ministry than do most (average) singles.

I think it might be better to say, "When God has equipped you for a role in life you can fulfill His ministry in your life, or you can sin."

Some are called to be single, and some are supposed to be married and still mess up their marriages.

A single person can devote the time to all others and be happy. We married cannot do this, as our commitment is also to our other half

 

[El_Guero]

PS - I almost forgot. The one thing that married couples do find it much more difficult to do is OVERCOMMIT to social functions.

I cannot count the times that since I am single, I should be able to go do something at the drop of a hat, "Aren't you single? You don't have to ask anyone if you can do this, do you?" I still serve God. And I still have a life.

Vent over.

That is why God called 'eve' adam's 'ezer'!!! Woman is to be a protector to a man . . . why do we forget that so quickly!

 

[chris777]

Gold dragon has posted the issue I had not seen explained.

The original poster asked about submissiveness.
And ultimately yes she is to obey yer husband in all he ask her.

Think of it this way, (from a parental perspective)
You leave your child with a babysitter (husband) and go off and do your busness, only to return to find that the babysitter has abused their power, Would you let it slide?
Do you think God will let it slide for a husband?
EVERYONE who has authority WILL be held to a higher accountability than those who dont.

EVeryone who doesnt understand responcibility, needs to look at the rate of fathers that abandon their children.

It is a burden, I never realized hob much it was until my Ex wife basically stepped out of our families life and left me with our daughter, and her 1st hubby with her other 3 kids.

Granted this was before I became a christian, and had a clue , But it does stand out.

Its off how people want responcibility, but they fail to recognize the price of accountability that it holds.

I will have to anwser to God for my failings as a husband to manage my family better than I did. Not something I am eager to do. Would I trade it? No because that is the purpose he gave me. being a man. IT's his design. to deviate from it is sin, much like the homosexual/transexual rejects who God has made them
in order to seek their own purpose.

Women may have to submit to their husbands, but the husbands are to submit to Christ, If you truely trust in Jesus, do you not believe he will hold the husband who abuses his authority over you accountable? and that he will receive his reward?

Much of the bible seems incomprehencible to us today, because it is foreign to the view the world has impressed on us. The scripture is clear, but our belief and trust in it is clouded by our pollution with worldly perceptions and understandings.
I used to believe in feminism before I became a christian, and argued these scriptures staunchly until The Holy Spirit convicted me and demonstrated how they are true.

 

[deacon jd]

Two problems prevail in marriage. On the husbands part it is failure to rule his home in love and knowledge. On the wifes part it is failure to obey her husband, and respect the authority that God has given him. It seems that the problem that you have with this is common among women. My wife ordered a great book that helped her tremendously the title is "Created To Be His Helpmeet" by Debi Pearl it is all about the role of the wife according to scripture. You see what God says about the wife and husband is all that really matters. I suggest that you make it a policy to go to the Word of God to answer your question instead of seeking the opinions of others. When we seek the opinions of others we always choose the opinions that we like and dismiss the opinions that we do not like, but when we go to the precious Word of God we may have to swallow hard sometimes at what God says but we will be accountable for what we do with it. The truth will set you free. God bless.

 

[dan e.]

deacondj, that was a very insiteful OPINION. i think it may very well help her out.

 

[rbell]

OK, question for you guys then...

The thread has turned a bit toward the idea of "obedience."

"Submit" and "Obey" (re Ephesians 6:1) are two different greek words.

Why didn't Paul just say "obey?" Is that a significant distinction?

 

[Magnetic Poles]

Think of it this way, (from a parental perspective)
You leave your child with a babysitter (husband) and go off and do your busness, only to return to find that the babysitter has abused their power, Would you let it slide?

Women are not children in need of a big male babysitter. The attitudes here toward women are appalling.

 

[mcdirector]

I do reckon that I think there is a difference between submit and obey.

Children are to obey, wives are to submit. The difference may be subtle, but it is there.

 

[blackbird]

I do reckon that I think there is a difference between submit and obey.

Children are to obey, wives are to submit. The difference may be subtle, but it is there.

Bitsy----the two words are as different as daylite and dark!!!!

 

[mcdirector]

Well, bro. blackbird, I was beginning to wonder after reading several posts on how wives are suppose to obey their husbands.

I'm wondering if this could be a point of tension in some marriages. A wife may readily submit, but if the husband's definition of submit is the same as obey . . .

 

[thjplgvp]

Here is what I teach husbands and wives in marriage counseling. The scriptures say therefore shall a man leave his father and mother cleave unto his wife. What is therefore? In Genesis 2:21-24 God says he took mans rib and fashioned or made a woman and brought her to the man who said bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh… Therefore shall a man leave his mother and father and in my opinion the thought here is completeness and balance.

When children are at home the parents provide the balance or counter weight in their life. Children have extremes in nearly every area of their life and the parents balance those extremes with rules, regulations, discipline, chastisement etc. But even with parents as the God ordained counter balance a young man or young woman will still be incomplete in their wholeness (unless the have the gift of singleness) until they marry their lifetime partner. Then they will move toward completion and balance when one sees a married couple who are happy they are seeing a couple who are complete and balanced in their approach to life.

They have submitted to each other, this submission is based on strength and not position. My wife is very empathetic and I am not therefore I submit to her strength in determining where to apply mercy and compassion. One of my strengths is finances therefore she submits to my strength in that area. Christ is our head spiritually therefore we submit to his headship in spiritual matters.

Submission is not based on position but simply acknowledging another expertise in an area for there is none of us who does not have strengths and weaknesses and my weaknesses is attracted to her strengths and her weaknesses are attracted to my strengths. When we submit to one another we are simply saying my spouse is better than I in that area.

Wives submit yourselves unto your own husbands (v-18) if taken in context with verse 19 could mean not to submit or accept the strengths of another man. Just like the husband is love his wife and not someone else’s wife he is not look at another woman as being better than his wife (v-19)

Just my thoughts on the subject…

Thjplgvp

 

[ituttut]

I do reckon that I think there is a difference between submit and obey.

Children are to obey, wives are to submit. The difference may be subtle, but it is there.

Trust and obey for that is the only way. We trust Jesus, and we are to obey Him. My wife trusts me, and she is to obey me. I trust my wife, and if she doesn't obey me I do what Christ does to us, when we do not obey. He tells us He loves us.

Husbands Love your wife, giving your life if necessary. You are clean, you will keep her clean as you nourish and cherish this gift God gave to you - Ephesians 5:25-29.

Comments?