Please help me to understand submissiveness. (My last word on this issue, I promise.)

[prayerwarrior]

My husband and I have been married (almost) 35 years. I believe that submissiveness is NOT the husband being a dictator. I believe that submissiveness is doing everything in my power to please the man God gave me; always putting him before myself.
Many things have changed over the course of our marriage, but our love for each other has only grown stronger as we serve the Lord together.
I am blessed, in that it is easy to submit to my husband. He is such a gentle, loving man. But a wife is to submit, whether her husband is easy to submit to, or not. Her submission is not between her and her husband. It is between her and God.

 

[Salamander]

A loving husband will suggest what he wants his wife to do without being childish and pouting until he gets his way.

He is to lead the wife in all spiritual matters but not necessarilly in any social matters unless those become harmful to her spiritually. IOW, he MUST communicate with her!

He is never to dictate to her except when she has become irrational and her actions prove harmful. Now that will have to include the fact the wife is his helpmeet and he MUST always hear her out. He is her umbrella of protection, not her cattle prod to incite her to respond.

I suggest regularly to my wife about her clothing. I feel it is my duty to her to let her know when her apparel becomes too revealing, this is because I KNOW all men are pigs when it comes to shapely women dressed to "tight".

If her clothes don't match I only suggest she wear something different, she knows what I like to see her in, but that does mean other men may too. (there's the danger!)

If the house isn't always clean, I have no right to DEMAND it be everyday, unless of course I get my "lazy tail off the couch and do something!":tear:

She is to have her own time to be herself, but then she's MINE the rest of the time, well, except for our four children, then there's her mother, sister, brother......etc.

I have enough trouble keeping myself in order and right with God, to keep her in order is a whole nother situation! I'm glad i don't have to neglect myself too often to straighten her out, but O! there are times! But then I need some straightening out too, well, I at least let her think I do need some straightening out.

She's my leftside, but then she's my right side when she's not my leftside, see, we're no longer twain, but ONE flesh.

Partnership? No! Commitment? Yes! But I am still IN CHARGE!

(just wish she'd take over sometimes though!)

So how submissive is the wife to be anyway? Just as submissive as the Lord would have her to be and remain truly happy and filled with the Spirit, else she'll get drunk on whatever wine she finds that gives her that false joy and it eventually ruins her and me!

I'm a little tired of these "two separate entities" in the marraige. My prayer is that homes will get back in a godly order and then the Church will follow in line and be in the order the Lord would have the Church in!

All puns intended, all hints are meant!:smilewinkgrin:

Oh, and here's something for all the godly wives:flower:

 

[TaterTot]

I'm a little tired of these "two separate entities" in the marraige. My prayer is that homes will get back in a godly order and then the Church will follow in line and be in the order the Lord would have the Church in!

All puns intended, all hints are meant!:smilewinkgrin:

Oh, and here's something for all the godly wives:flower:

This is the nicest toned post I have seen from you in a long time :saint:

However, I still disagree. A subservient wife doesnt = a Godly wife. If your wife thinks on her own, then you are 2 seperate entities. Surely, you allow her that. But it doesnt mean that you cant be one as well. I think for myself, but I gladly and joyfully submit to Godly leadership.

 

[El_Guero]

This is the nicest toned post I have seen from you in a long time :saint:

However, I still disagree. A subservient wife doesnt = a Godly wife. If your wife thinks on her own, then you are 2 seperate entities. Surely, you allow her that. But it doesnt mean that you cant be one as well. I think for myself, but I gladly and joyfully submit to Godly leadership.

I like that!

I pray that more of our families will be led to that goal.

 

[ASLANSPAL]

You are wise and submissive to each others talents

You are equal before the Lord , each of you have talents to help the other as ONE....she may be good as a real estate broker...he may be good as a handy man ....she may be good with the bills and taxes....he may be good at the cars and trucks mechanical up keep...she may be good at teaching the children about sex education...he may be good at teaching them sports....she may teach and reveal the bible clearly....he may be a living example of what she taught ....or vice versa...common sense and practically in seeing each other as something to offer to being ONE means a very smooth a speedbumpless Oneness. imho.

The Holy Spirit is the immediate help in these matters and in times of disagreement but basically its all about recognizing talents and having the
love to submit to that persons ability to do a good job and feel the grace coming from you to empower them.

In the Spirit of humility
Aslanspal

 

[blackbird]

You are equal before the Lord , each of you have talents to help the other as ONE....she may be good as a real estate broker...he may be good as a handy man ....she may be good with the bills and taxes....he may be good at the cars and trucks mechanical up keep...she may be good at teaching the children about sex education...he may be good at teaching them sports....she may teach and reveal the bible clearly....he may be a living example of what she taught ....or vice versa...common sense and practically in seeing each other as something to offer to being ONE means a very smooth a speedbumpless Oneness. imho.

The Holy Spirit is the immediate help in these matters and in times of disagreement but basically its all about recognizing talents and having the
love to submit to that persons ability to do a good job and feel the grace coming from you to empower them.

In the Spirit of humility
Aslanspal

You say nothing of Colossians 3:18-19

And nothing of Ephesians 5:23

 

[deacon jd]

You are equal before the Lord , each of you have talents to help the other as ONE....she may be good as a real estate broker...he may be good as a handy man ....she may be good with the bills and taxes....he may be good at the cars and trucks mechanical up keep...she may be good at teaching the children about sex education...he may be good at teaching them sports....she may teach and reveal the bible clearly....he may be a living example of what she taught ....or vice versa...common sense and practically in seeing each other as something to offer to being ONE means a very smooth a speedbumpless Oneness. imho.

The Holy Spirit is the immediate help in these matters and in times of disagreement but basically its all about recognizing talents and having the
love to submit to that persons ability to do a good job and feel the grace coming from you to empower them.

In the Spirit of humility
Aslanspal

Did anyone notice that in each of the examples given above the husband has the less important and dumber job. This is the mentality of modern day thinking it is usually programed into our thinking by watching too much TV. Has anyone noticed that almost every TV "program" and thats what it is by the way, that the stupid little henpecked husband is always the bubbling idiot that is always the brunt of the joke? and on the other hand the wife is always the successful career woman that constantly belittles and humiliates her airhead husband. Just an observation. We need to get back to the Word of God and leave our opinions out of the matter of roles in the home. The heart is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked. We had better listen to God on such important matters.

 

[deacon jd]

I do reckon that I think there is a difference between submit and obey.

Children are to obey, wives are to submit. The difference may be subtle, but it is there.

Sarah obeyed Abraham with a meek and quite spirit,and she was well commended for it as you will if you do the same. You will find this in the Word of God in 1 Peter 3:6. Women are to both submit and obey their husbands.

 

[mcdirector]

Sarah obeyed Abraham with a meek and quite spirit,and she was well commended for it as you will if you do the same. You will find this in the Word of God in 1 Peter 3:6. Women are to both submit and obey their husbands.

I want so badly to say something sarcastic here. I'm gonna hold my tongue though because I do know my place both here and in my marriage.

My point here is that some of you fellows (not all, but some) talk about obedience like it is dog training. Since I am also to be at my husband's side as his helpmate, I find some of these offensive. We women are not property (at least not in the USA today).

I did mention earlier that submission is very easy when both husband and wife have the same goals and desires and aspirations.

 

[rbell]

Haven't we already pointed out, in scripture, that "submit" (the Biblical term) and "obey" (Deacon JD and others' term) are two entirely different words?

Deaconjd, the command is submission, not obedience. Granted, those two are often related, but they are not identical.

 

[deacon jd]

I want so badly to say something sarcastic here. I'm gonna hold my tongue though because I do know my place both here and in my marriage.

My point here is that some of you fellows (not all, but some) talk about obedience like it is dog training. Since I am also to be at my husband's side as his helpmate, I find some of these offensive. We women are not property (at least not in the USA today).

I did mention earlier that submission is very easy when both husband and wife have the same goals and desires and aspirations.

Let me clear one thing up. It is not my place to make my wife obey. I do not believe that it is any mans place to do that. What you mentioned earlier is that obedience is not taught in scripture but it is and now you know it is. It is not my place to train my wife or her place to train me. We who are joined together in the Lord should leave that up to the Holy Spirit. And if you want to be sarcastic about the Word of God go ahead most men and women are in todays world. By the way what goes on in the "USA today" has no bearing upon what scripture teaches. Gods word will not bend for custom or tradition.

 

[PJ]

I do reckon that I think there is a difference between submit and obey. Children are to obey, wives are to submit.

I wonder in how many marriages these words are actually spoken? In our 20 years together, my husband has never used the words "SUBMIT! OBEY!" in our marriage. We both understand God's word on this subject, and neither have a problem with it. But I understand these words are spoken often in some marriages. What a shame.

 

[deacon jd]

Haven't we already pointed out, in scripture, that "submit" (the Biblical term) and "obey" (Deacon JD and others' term) are two entirely different words?

Deaconjd, the command is submission, not obedience. Granted, those two are often related, but they are not identical.

I agree the terms are not identical, but both are in the scripture look at my previous post. By the way "obey" is(Deacon JD, Apostle Peter, Gods, and other's term) go read the Word of God.

 

[rbell]

Deaconjd, there's no reason to get huffy. I did read 1 Peter. I see that as a comparative ("see what Sarah did?") as opposed to prescriptive ("you must obey your husband").

I'm in full agreement that a wife should submit. I simply don't equate submit and obey.

 

[deacon jd]

Deaconjd, there's no reason to get huffy. I did read 1 Peter. I see that as a comparative ("see what Sarah did?") as opposed to prescriptive ("you must obey your husband").

I'm in full agreement that a wife should submit. I simply don't equate submit and obey.

Once again I agree. I do not equate submit and obey either. Both are scriptural whether you like it or not. Seems that I'm not the only one getting huffy. Why is 1Pet 3 in the bible is it just for "Oh well what Sarah did was nice and you can do it to if you choose to." No way. I hope you don't apply that to all of Gods word.

 

[rbell]

Once again I agree. I do not equate submit and obey either. Both are scriptural whether you like it or not. Seems that I'm not the only one getting huffy. Why is 1Pet 3 in the bible is it just for "Oh well what Sarah did was nice and you can do it to if you choose to." No way. I hope you don't apply that to all of Gods word.

Been nice talkin' to ya...but I can tell in about three posts from now, you'll accuse me of "not believing the Bible." Then you'll have to be edited and warned.

So, for your own good, I'll bow out and let you berate me on your own.

 

[Tom Butler]

I've been lurking around reading the posts, and here are my two cents worth.

First, there is a good practical reason why equal partners is not a good idea. It's not a question of being superior or inferior. It's a question of responsibility. If you have two partners in a business, one of them must have the management responsibility. Otherwise, if they disagree on something, you'll have gridlock. Someone must have the final decision-making responsibility.

Second, some of you husbands out there will admit, as I do, that sometimes our wives possess a wisdom that we do not have, and we ignore their counsel at our peril and at the peril of our marriage.

Any husband who insists on unlaterally imposing his will on his wife is dumber than a rock.

Finally, it seems to me that a husband who is totally devoted to his wife's well-being, who seeks her counsel, who recognizes her wisdom (and takes her advice when it's wise counsel), who demonstrates his love for her, who is himself totally submitted to Christ's Lordship, and acts wisely and unselfishly, will have a wife who will have less problem with Biblical submission than one who has a husband demonstrates none of these things.

Recognizing when her opinion is better than yours is part of that wisdom I mentioned. Accepting her opinion as better in no way diminishes your role as the spiritual head of the home.

Oh, by the way, unless both of you are submitted to Christ as Lord of your lives and of your marriage, this whole submission thing won't work very well.

 

[ituttut]

Originally Posted by mcdirector
I do reckon that I think there is a difference between submit and obey. Children are to obey, wives are to submit.

I wonder in how many marriages these words are actually spoken? In our 20 years together, my husband has never used the words "SUBMIT! OBEY!" in our marriage. We both understand God's word on this subject, and neither have a problem with it. But I understand these words are spoken often in some marriages. What a shame.

Yes I see shame, but should it become necessary (evidently not in your or mcdirector's case) the shame of it will lie with the woman.

I really doubt deacon jd yells at his woman to "SUBMIT", and if she doesn't yells "OBEY". It kinda seems to me some may be fighting The Word. She is not a "dog" to be trained to "SUBMIT". She is to do this on her own, as she in her "DESIRE" to please him, will willing submit, or should. As the woman's "DESIRE" should be to please her man, and she raises issue, then should she not be treated as a child? As mcdirector says "children are to obey".

 

[ituttut]

I've been lurking around reading the posts, and here are my two cents worth.

First, there is a good practical reason why equal partners is not a good idea. It's not a question of being superior or inferior. It's a question of responsibility. If you have two partners in a business, one of them must have the management responsibility. Otherwise, if they disagree on something, you'll have gridlock. Someone must have the final decision-making responsibility.

Second, some of you husbands out there will admit, as I do, that sometimes our wives possess a wisdom that we do not have, and we ignore their counsel at our peril and at the peril of our marriage.

Any husband who insists on unlaterally imposing his will on his wife is dumber than a rock.

Finally, it seems to me that a husband who is totally devoted to his wife's well-being, who seeks her counsel, who recognizes her wisdom (and takes her advice when it's wise counsel), who demonstrates his love for her, who is himself totally submitted to Christ's Lordship, and acts wisely and unselfishly, will have a wife who will have less problem with Biblical submission than one who has a husband demonstrates none of these things.

Recognizing when her opinion is better than yours is part of that wisdom I mentioned. Accepting her opinion as better in no way diminishes your role as the spiritual head of the home.

Oh, by the way, unless both of you are submitted to Christ as Lord of your lives and of your marriage, this whole submission thing won't work very well.

Good take on this "thorny" subject Tom.

We are to acquiesce when appropriate to do so, when others hold better understanding of a certain matter. But we cannot be dumb as a rock allowing alteration in most matters when we are submitted to Christ our Lord. I'm sure you have seen, as I, when a time does come to turn over final authority to our partner, when the head becomes incapacitated.

In the realm of secular you address, I have dear friends in partnerships (more than one), and as you say they know going in "one" must make the final decision. Not the smartest, the brightest, prettiest, most political correct, but He (She) is it. It is too bad we see in Christian marriages "partnerships" broken up for one or the other made no commitment to be subservient to the other, or one wishes to dominate every aspect on every issue.

Case in point on affirmative side. It seems every time I access BB and get ready to post, I get a call to "come running" as it is time to eat, time to go shopping, time to help with what is too heavy…too high…"I can't open it"…too complicated, and I'll bet you can add to the list. This is why most of my posts are in the early hours (midnight to 4 AM) as I "acquiesce" and do as I am told. But there is a "heads" on one side of the coin, and there is a "fleshly" side also. When events dictate, the really important stuff comes along, guess who gets to flip the "coin"? Am I in control or what.

 

[Nicholas25]

This is a tricky topic and one I have struggled greatly with since I married my wife on July 29th. But I would think that if a husband loved his wife as Christ loved the church, and if the wife would submit to her husband as to the Lord, the marriage would be a wonderful caring relationship where both parties were always trying to please and satisfy each other.

Of course the FLESH gets in the way of this.

A couple of quick questions
1. If a husband tells his wife to do something and she says no, is she wrong?

2. If a woman comes home tired from work and doesn't want to have relations is she wrong because of the needs of the husband or is the husband wrong for not being considerate of the wife because she is tired?