SpiritualMadMan
New Member
Unfortunately, all too true, of far too many of us...
What we *should* do out of love and gratitude...
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Please list the commandments of God
- Thread starter billwald
- Start date
Unfortunately, all too true, of far too many of us...
What we *should* do out of love and gratitude...
GE:
Reading Acts 15 reveals believers are "relieved from" NO Christian duties, but are warned against being loaded with extra works of UNBELIEF AND PAGANISM.
The Sabbath in no manner whatsoever got regarded as a subject of contention (like circumcision); on the contrary, the Sabbath is simply and without ANY question, query or bias TAKEN FOR GRANTED part and parcel of CHRISTIAN worship.
SpiritualMadMan
New Member
Agreed.
Unfortunately, there is that little matter of the Saturday Sabbath vs The Lord's Day. Which seems to cause all kinds of contention.
How do you "view" the following two passages?
Rom 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
Rom 14:6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.
And:
Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Personally, I am comfortable and prefer Sunday as the Lord's Day...
GE:
I'll be quick, my wife is calling me to bed!
Romans 14 --- Is about what is the SUBSTANCE of the Kingdom of God, "food and drink", or, being the better man than the next?
NEVER interpret any Scripture in isolation; NEVER interpret it in comparison with irrelevant Scriptures.
Those two UNFAILING criteria of interpretation show Romans 14 has got NOTHING to do with the Sabbath or the validity of the Sabbath or its keeping.
My conclusion when I made a study of Romans 14 was that things really got out of hand and fellow-believers judged each other saved or damned, measured against how they celebrated especially the "FOOD AN DRINK" of passover specifically. In other words, the Church made a mountain out of the mole's heap. But bad, nasty and spitefully, as if "food and drink" could make one better than others and as though "food and drink" were the alpha and omega of God's Kingdom.
The Sabbath was NOT an issue at ALL.
Colossians 2? Ah! read my posts literally thousands of right here on BB!
Good night!
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
Note the word "alike" is in itallics - it has been inserted.
In Romans 14 Paul speaks to the issue of an entire list of annual holy days approved of in the Bible but not binding at the time of his writing. You can find that list in Leviticus 23.
Recall that the NT saints had what we call "The OT" as "their Bible".
Some of the NT saints kept all of those annual holy days alike - while others regarded one of them above the others. Paul says that either practice is fine.
1. Is there a text that says that week day 1 is the Lord's day?
2. Col 2:16 speaks to the issue of being judged by others. In Matt 7 pre-cross Christ said "Judge not that you be not judged". This teaching is not changed from pre-cross to post-cross.
in Christ,
Bob
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BobRyan
Well-Known Member
Obedience is only a matter for the already born-again. The already saved. The lost stand condemned until they accept salvation.
1Cor 10
13 No temptation has overtaken you but such as is common to man; and God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will provide the way of escape also, so that you will be able to endure it
Romans 6
1What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase?
2May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it?
3Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death?
4Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life.
5For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection,
6knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so thatwe would no longer be slaves to sin;
7 for he who has died is freed from sin.
8Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him,
9knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, is never to die again; death no longer is master over Him.
10For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God.
11Even so consider yourselves to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus.
12Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its lusts,
13and do not go on presenting the members of your body to sin as instruments of unrighteousness; but present yourselves to God as those alive from the dead,
13 -and your members as instruments of righteousness to God.
14For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace.
15What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? May it never be!
16Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness?
1Cor 10
13 No temptation has overtaken you but such as is common to man; and God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will provide the way of escape also, so that you will be able to endure it
Romans 6
1What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase?
2May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it?
3Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death?
4Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life.
5For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection,
6knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so thatwe would no longer be slaves to sin;
7 for he who has died is freed from sin.
8Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him,
9knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, is never to die again; death no longer is master over Him.
10For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God.
11Even so consider yourselves to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus.
12Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its lusts,
13and do not go on presenting the members of your body to sin as instruments of unrighteousness; but present yourselves to God as those alive from the dead,
13 -and your members as instruments of righteousness to God.
14For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace.
15What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? May it never be!
16Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness?
SpiritualMadMan
New Member
This rings true as it stands.
At least for me. :smilewinkgrin:
The problem comes in when we have to decide for ourselves and our theological training how important obedience is.
That is, for the Believer, will a failure to obey cause a loss of Salvation?
I think this is at the crux of the debate between Calvin and Arminius?
Even being raised in an Aremnian system of theology, I have come to the conclusion that while I hold it is "theoretically" possibly to lose ones salvation, it is niether easy or probable.
I do not really believe that after paying so high a price that the Lover of Our Souls will just let us walk away.
(Thankfully "Stalking" is *not* illegal in the Spiritual realms! :saint
[Sorry couldn't resist the sidetrack...]
SpiritualMadMan;1621884 Quote: Originally Posted by BobRyan Obedience is only a matter for the already born-again. The already saved. The lost stand condemned until they accept salvation. ----snip---- said:
GE:
I'm surprised as well.... first time from BobRyan .... too wary though.... to 'smile'.
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
This rings true as it stands.
At least for me. :smilewinkgrin:
The problem comes in when we have to decide for ourselves and our theological training how important obedience is.
That is, for the Believer, will a failure to obey cause a loss of Salvation?
I think this is at the crux of the debate between Calvin and Arminius?
Even being raised in an Aremnian system of theology, I have come to the conclusion that while I hold it is "theoretically" possibly to lose ones salvation, it is niether easy or probable.
I do not really believe that after paying so high a price that the Lover of Our Souls will just let us walk away.
(Thankfully "Stalking" is *not* illegal in the Spiritual realms! :saint
[Sorry couldn't resist the sidetrack...]
It is always safe to stick with the Bible.
In Gal 5:4 we have "you have fallen from grace you have been severed from Christ".
In Matt 18 we have the warning of "forgiveness revoked" where Christ says "so shall my Father do to each one of you if you do not forgive your brother from your heart".
In John 15:1-8 we have "branches in me that are removed and tossed into the fire"
In Romans 11 we have "Branches broken off for unbelief.... but He is able to graft them in AGAIN IF they do not continue in unbelief".
in 1Cor 9 at the end of the chapter we have "I buffet my body and make it my slave LEST after preaching the Gospel to others I myself should be disqualified" from it.
So while I agree with you completely that God does not just "walk away" the first time a saint sins. Yet God does warn the saints of the very real risk of falling. And he even points to examples where people have fallen from grace.
In Christ,
Bob
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
so much of what you post is "you just quoting you" in a kind of self-talk that I often am unsure just how much of what I actually believe - you are even aware of at this point.
in Christ,
Bob
GE:
Yes, I'm not sure myself; you bet! Here's getting clear why, already.
And I would rather be talking and quoting me, than quoting the Word of God falsely to trusting listeners.
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
Lev 19:18 "Love your neighbor as yourself".
Deut 6:5 "Love God with all your heart"
Precross - Christ states to the Jewish leaders that these two OT commandments are the foundation - bedrock for all of God's Word. (see Matt 22) The Jews agree that this is the case - pre-cross(Luke 10:26-27). No change in the Post Cross context.
in Christ,
Bob
Deut 6:5 "Love God with all your heart"
Precross - Christ states to the Jewish leaders that these two OT commandments are the foundation - bedrock for all of God's Word. (see Matt 22) The Jews agree that this is the case - pre-cross(Luke 10:26-27). No change in the Post Cross context.
in Christ,
Bob
GE:
The way one is forced to understand that YOU understand "the Mosaic Covenant", "the Mosaic Covenant" never even applied to the Israel of "the land".
...never was mandatory for any person ever anywhere.
Lev 19:18 "Love your neighbor as yourself".
Deut 6:5 "Love God with all your heart"
TRUE! But this doesn't prove anything about the Mosaic Covenant being applicable to gentiles. Most every country has traffic laws. Americans stop for red lights because they are obey local US traffic code. We are NOT also obeying Asian and African traffic laws. We love God and neighbor because Jesus told us to.
Deut 6:5 "Love God with all your heart"
TRUE! But this doesn't prove anything about the Mosaic Covenant being applicable to gentiles. Most every country has traffic laws. Americans stop for red lights because they are obey local US traffic code. We are NOT also obeying Asian and African traffic laws. We love God and neighbor because Jesus told us to.
The 'Mosaic Covenant' is applicable to Jesus Christ.
And Jesus Christ 'is applicable', to both Jew and Gentile.
Therefore : no in between : We all are to love God and neighbor : "because Jesus told us to".
BUT NONE OF US DO!
That's why all of us are sinners, and lost; not because we don't fulfill the 'Mosaic Covenant'; but because we break God's heart.
Who is saying he gladdens the heart of God? Please, I want to see you; have never seen such a person.
And Jesus Christ 'is applicable', to both Jew and Gentile.
Therefore : no in between : We all are to love God and neighbor : "because Jesus told us to".
BUT NONE OF US DO!
That's why all of us are sinners, and lost; not because we don't fulfill the 'Mosaic Covenant'; but because we break God's heart.
Who is saying he gladdens the heart of God? Please, I want to see you; have never seen such a person.