-
Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Please review this " what we believe statement " give your opinions?? Please!!!!!!
- Thread starter TaliOrlando
- Start date
I can agree with some of this, wholeheartedly. Other parts I disagree with wholeheartedly. One point I do more or less agree with, as an 'Orthodox' Christain (whatever that may mean) is the presentation of point #2. I usually do not use the phrase "The Trinity", but normally speak, in this vein, of "The Triune God" or "The Godhead". The reason I do this is to make absolutely clear that I am a 'monotheist', or a believer in one God- God who is one in essence, and three in personality. Deuteronomy 6:4 is what is termed "The Shema" (More or less literally, "Listen up!").
Not being Jewish, I see no need to 'read' "Adonai" when the text reads "YHVH", out of a supposed 'respect' for God's own name for Himself, but posted this for the ending I've been told is plural of "Elohenu", hence giving credence to the orthodox Biblical teaching of God- one in 'essence'; three in 'personality', or to put it another way- three 'persons' in one Godhead, or again, as I previously said, "The Triune God". The primary reason I do not use the wording of "The Trinity" is that I want no one to falsely conclude that I believe in three Gods
A short excerpt from the Athanasian Creed is appropriate, both for its clarity, and for its brevity. FTR, there are multiple renderings of this, with multple wordings, but with little or no difference in substance.
G'nite all!
Ed
rendered in th NKJV as "“Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one![a]... ”
Not being Jewish, I see no need to 'read' "Adonai" when the text reads "YHVH", out of a supposed 'respect' for God's own name for Himself, but posted this for the ending I've been told is plural of "Elohenu", hence giving credence to the orthodox Biblical teaching of God- one in 'essence'; three in 'personality', or to put it another way- three 'persons' in one Godhead, or again, as I previously said, "The Triune God". The primary reason I do not use the wording of "The Trinity" is that I want no one to falsely conclude that I believe in three Gods
A short excerpt from the Athanasian Creed is appropriate, both for its clarity, and for its brevity. FTR, there are multiple renderings of this, with multple wordings, but with little or no difference in substance.
Ceetainly a 'creed' or 'Statement of faith" is no substitute for Scripture. Yet one such may well summarize what you or I believe.
G'nite all!
Ed
Last edited by a moderator:
Marcia
Active Member
There are many, many red flags here, including the ones mentioned by rbell.
Nos. 8 and 11 sound legalistic. Will they decide what is living separated from sin?
Also, no. 12. as someone else pointed out, is bad news -- that we are supposed to be healed of illness all the time on earth? I don't think so.
But what really seals it for me as a bad church, and I don't say that lightly, is no. 13. It sounds like it's following the 5-fold ministry teaching which is part of the Kansas City Prophets-Latter Rain-Manifest Sons of God-Joel's Army groups. They believe the true church will restore the office of prophet and apostle. Some of the teachings in this are that new revelation supersedes the bible, and that not all prophecy needs to be 100% correct. Their statement on the Bible in no. 1 is very weak, imo, but that goes along with the five-fold groups.
If they are involved in the modern 5-fold teachings then I would certainly stay away!
I posted some on this on the Rick Joyner thread, which I think was in this forum.
Nos. 8 and 11 sound legalistic. Will they decide what is living separated from sin?
Also, no. 12. as someone else pointed out, is bad news -- that we are supposed to be healed of illness all the time on earth? I don't think so.
But what really seals it for me as a bad church, and I don't say that lightly, is no. 13. It sounds like it's following the 5-fold ministry teaching which is part of the Kansas City Prophets-Latter Rain-Manifest Sons of God-Joel's Army groups. They believe the true church will restore the office of prophet and apostle. Some of the teachings in this are that new revelation supersedes the bible, and that not all prophecy needs to be 100% correct. Their statement on the Bible in no. 1 is very weak, imo, but that goes along with the five-fold groups.
If they are involved in the modern 5-fold teachings then I would certainly stay away!
I posted some on this on the Rick Joyner thread, which I think was in this forum.
Binitarianism (which IS a rare there position) is not two Gods just like Trinitarianism is not three Gods. You did say "there are only two", and I thought you meant two members of the Godhead. But if you're sayiing only the Father is God, that would be unitarianism.Joe90 said:
Eric B said:
God the Father is God.
The Son of God is the Son.
Notice it never says 'God the Son'. Never in the Bible does it say that.
So by your definition I am a 'unitarian'. But then so was Jesus.
One member of the Godhead - God. Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is not part of the Godhead, as neither Adam, nor any of the sons and daughters of God are God. We are his children.
I have read thus far,
"4. We believe that man was created in a state of righteousness and holiness, but that he fell; and now lives in a state of spiritual death unless he is redeemed through his faith in the grace of God and the blood of the Lord Jesus Christ (Rom 3:23, Eph 2:1-2)", when I came across unbiblical, unchristian, stuff, in the words, "... redeemed through his faith ...".
See another thread now going on, "Salvation by faith".
"4. We believe that man was created in a state of righteousness and holiness, but that he fell; and now lives in a state of spiritual death unless he is redeemed through his faith in the grace of God and the blood of the Lord Jesus Christ (Rom 3:23, Eph 2:1-2)", when I came across unbiblical, unchristian, stuff, in the words, "... redeemed through his faith ...".
See another thread now going on, "Salvation by faith".
DHK said:
Yes, in fact! I should have noticed!
Eric B said:
What this statement really means is 'stages' - not revelations of the different, Persons of the One, God-Head.
Quote:
Originally Posted by billwald
Why should it be harder to get into a local church than to get into Heaven?
Ed Sutton:
Interesting question and/or comment, if only because my sister-in-law asked that exact same question once, and related the incident to me just this past Sunday.
GE:
It may be harder than worth the while to get into either -- chasing a dream of unreality. 'Heaven' --- where is that?
If found in Jesus Christ - and He in me - it's enough for me; then remains that hope of an everlasting life - which I already have through AND, in Jesus Christ - upon the new earth of or in, God's reality.
Originally Posted by billwald
Why should it be harder to get into a local church than to get into Heaven?
Ed Sutton:
Interesting question and/or comment, if only because my sister-in-law asked that exact same question once, and related the incident to me just this past Sunday.
GE:
It may be harder than worth the while to get into either -- chasing a dream of unreality. 'Heaven' --- where is that?
If found in Jesus Christ - and He in me - it's enough for me; then remains that hope of an everlasting life - which I already have through AND, in Jesus Christ - upon the new earth of or in, God's reality.
Marcia said:
Jesus, the Son of God is NOT God. You cannot be your own father now can you?
No, I don't deny the deity of Christ - I just don't believe it the way you do.
Remember that Jesus said that he came in his Father's name (John 5:43). They have the same name - 'Lord Jesus Christ'.
The concept of 'deity' is about God - therefore that's the Father: Jesus Snr, not the Son, Jesus jnr.
The Son of God NEVER EVER claimed to be God. Even the devil said: 'If thou be the SON OF GOD' when tempting Jesus in the wilderness.
Simon was asked by Jesus who he thought he was and Simon replied 'Thou art the Christ the Son of the living God'.
Please show me a scripture that proves there is a trinity - your so-called three-persons-in-one-God multiple personality disorder thing.
'um, friend, "Jesus is not God" is heresy.'
Says who? Your church? The pope? Your pastor/priest/whatever?
Jesus the SON OF GOD is NOT God. As the scriptures point out repeatedly, he never claimed to be God, nor did anyone close to him proclaim him to be God, Paul doesn't call him God and nor did the devil.
Please show me scriptural evidence of the Son of God's Godhood.
Please explain how the Son can be his own Father.
I would really like to know how this is done.
Says who? Your church? The pope? Your pastor/priest/whatever?
Jesus the SON OF GOD is NOT God. As the scriptures point out repeatedly, he never claimed to be God, nor did anyone close to him proclaim him to be God, Paul doesn't call him God and nor did the devil.
Please show me scriptural evidence of the Son of God's Godhood.
Please explain how the Son can be his own Father.
I would really like to know how this is done.
Marcia
Active Member
Joe90 said:
Jesus is God but he is not God the Father. Apparently, you deny the Trinity. So is Jesus another God?
Someone posted links to explain the Trinity. God the Father, God the Son, and God the HS are all eternal and have the same attributes of deity yet God is one. One God essence with 3 persons. This is Christianity.
Since your profile does not give a church, do you mind saying which group/church you are part of? Why hide it, Joe?
Marcia:
'Jesus is God but he is not God the Father. Apparently, you deny the Trinity. So is Jesus another God?'
Once more, in plain English as before, thwe Son is called Jesus, as is the Father, but they are still two separate beings - one is the Father (God), the other is the Son, who is not God. Jesus the Son is not God, never claimed to be, never was called God by anyone in the Bible.
'Someone posted links to explain the Trinity. God the Father, God the Son, and God the HS are all eternal and have the same attributes of deity yet God is one. One God essence with 3 persons. This is Christianity.'
Yes I've read them.
They, and no one else seems to be able to explain to me how you can be your own father.
If you could do so, I'd appreciate it.
Are you saying God has multiple personality disorder? How can one entity be three entities, but only be one?
What you are claiming is not even sensible. Try going down the street telling everyone you meet that there is three persons inside the one they are looking at.
Guess what will happen? You'll be carried off by the nice young men in clean white coats and heavily sedated after the shrink gets thru asking why you're having delusions.
I can see how I can be a father, and a son, and an uncle (which I happen to be), but I am not my own son nor am I my own father. Father, son and uncle are TITLES, not a trinity of 'me'. There's only ONE of me, as there is only one God.
Whether you want to see it or not, you have three gods. If you make Jesus the Son God, the Holy Spirit God and the Father God, clearly you have THREE.
I have left my church name out as I wish to discuss things based on scripture, not political manifestoes, nor do I wish to get into a 'Your church is ugly so you're wrong', one of which is going on in the "my Church defined your Bible' thread.
'Jesus is God but he is not God the Father. Apparently, you deny the Trinity. So is Jesus another God?'
Once more, in plain English as before, thwe Son is called Jesus, as is the Father, but they are still two separate beings - one is the Father (God), the other is the Son, who is not God. Jesus the Son is not God, never claimed to be, never was called God by anyone in the Bible.
'Someone posted links to explain the Trinity. God the Father, God the Son, and God the HS are all eternal and have the same attributes of deity yet God is one. One God essence with 3 persons. This is Christianity.'
Yes I've read them.
They, and no one else seems to be able to explain to me how you can be your own father.
If you could do so, I'd appreciate it.
Are you saying God has multiple personality disorder? How can one entity be three entities, but only be one?
What you are claiming is not even sensible. Try going down the street telling everyone you meet that there is three persons inside the one they are looking at.
Guess what will happen? You'll be carried off by the nice young men in clean white coats and heavily sedated after the shrink gets thru asking why you're having delusions.
I can see how I can be a father, and a son, and an uncle (which I happen to be), but I am not my own son nor am I my own father. Father, son and uncle are TITLES, not a trinity of 'me'. There's only ONE of me, as there is only one God.
Whether you want to see it or not, you have three gods. If you make Jesus the Son God, the Holy Spirit God and the Father God, clearly you have THREE.
I have left my church name out as I wish to discuss things based on scripture, not political manifestoes, nor do I wish to get into a 'Your church is ugly so you're wrong', one of which is going on in the "my Church defined your Bible' thread.