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Plucked out of His hand
- Thread starter C.S. Murphy
- Start date
C.S. Murphy
New Member
Whatever. The story of Noah is not in scripture to explain the doctrine of eternal security, so I'm getting off this rabbit trail.
Brother the comparison of the ark of Noah and the ark of safety we have in Christ is no rabbit trail. Look at 2 Tim 3:16 "All Scripture" I am sorry if you typed yourself into a corner with your jumping out the window remark(notice that apparently you didn't feel it was a rabbit trail in that post) but the answer is simple, trust Christ, stop worrying about crossing the line or falling (jumping ) from a window. Please note that I am still waiting for scriptures that specify this line we cannot cross.
Murph
So "all scripture" is about eternal security?
I did think it was a rabbit trail. I didn't think the trail would last this long.
You really want to play this game? First, a cubit is about 18 inches. Maybe some can't but I can fit through an 18-inch square hole. But the reading really doesn't say this is the size of the window, but how far it is from the roof. But whatever, forget the window, the Noah could still open the covering (v13) Heck, he could burn or chop a hole in the wood anywhere he wanted. This is getting ridiculous, Murphy. Can we move on now?I was going to answer each comment in that paragraph, but when I realized each one was a straw man, I changed my mind.
Have we come this far in the conversation and you still don't understand where I'm coming from?Brian, I don't understand where you are coming from. We are sheep. Have you EVER seen a sheep that could
1. buy itself?
2. take care of itself?
3. find itself if it was lost?
4. choose to leave the care of the shepherd and belong to someone else?
HOWEVER, a sheep which is well cared for will behave differently than a starving or sickened animal. Did the behavior of the sheep make the difference? No, not at all! It was the care of the Shepherd which caused the sheep to behave differently!
The picture of us being sheep -- helpless, stupid, inclined to follow our own noses -- is in both the Old and New Testaments. It is there for a reason.
Or look at something else: a person who is not sure of his or her salvation will always be concentrating on him or herself, trying to make sure that the works are sufficient to keep salvation. This concentration on self is the very thing God commands AGAINST when we are told to love HIM and love our neighbors!
But a person who knows he or she is absolutely secure in Christ will focus on Christ in love, and Christ's love will flow through that person affecting everyone around. Thus the commandments are fulfilled by the person who knows he or she is saved completely and forever and who then trusts and obeys out of love for Christ.
They cannot be fulfilled by a person who is still concentrating on himself.
It is imperative that you get past the point of thinking you can lose your salvation (if you are saved, but that is not my judgment!) and get to the point of focusing on Christ instead of on yourself if you want to be able to hear and obey Him.
The heart of a saved person is absolutely changed and renewed. You cannot kill that new heart that wants Christ and get your old dead one back which always wanted to run away. That new heart is forever yours. And God will surely, in each of us, complete the good work He began.
Our lives are hid with Christ in God. We are not our own.
1. buy itself?
2. take care of itself?
3. find itself if it was lost?
4. choose to leave the care of the shepherd and belong to someone else?
HOWEVER, a sheep which is well cared for will behave differently than a starving or sickened animal. Did the behavior of the sheep make the difference? No, not at all! It was the care of the Shepherd which caused the sheep to behave differently!
The picture of us being sheep -- helpless, stupid, inclined to follow our own noses -- is in both the Old and New Testaments. It is there for a reason.
Or look at something else: a person who is not sure of his or her salvation will always be concentrating on him or herself, trying to make sure that the works are sufficient to keep salvation. This concentration on self is the very thing God commands AGAINST when we are told to love HIM and love our neighbors!
But a person who knows he or she is absolutely secure in Christ will focus on Christ in love, and Christ's love will flow through that person affecting everyone around. Thus the commandments are fulfilled by the person who knows he or she is saved completely and forever and who then trusts and obeys out of love for Christ.
They cannot be fulfilled by a person who is still concentrating on himself.
It is imperative that you get past the point of thinking you can lose your salvation (if you are saved, but that is not my judgment!) and get to the point of focusing on Christ instead of on yourself if you want to be able to hear and obey Him.
The heart of a saved person is absolutely changed and renewed. You cannot kill that new heart that wants Christ and get your old dead one back which always wanted to run away. That new heart is forever yours. And God will surely, in each of us, complete the good work He began.
Our lives are hid with Christ in God. We are not our own.
C.S. Murphy
New Member
C.S. Murphy
New Member
Ya know, maybe I'll let this drop for now. I am getting more than a little frustrated with answering points I have already answered, being asked for scriptures I have already provided (which were not adequately dealt with, imo), having several of my key points ignored, having my position misrepresented, and now having my own spiritual condition brought into question. No doubt some of you will see this as a cop out - it isn't, but if it makes you more comfortable to think that it is, go ahead.
Scott, I will still continue to consider your posts and maybe I'll send you a private message sooner or later.
Scott, I will still continue to consider your posts and maybe I'll send you a private message sooner or later.
C.S. Murphy
New Member
Murphy, there are three threads I have been participating in. This one, and two in the "Baptist Theology & Bible Study" forum. If you're *really* interested, you can reread all my posts in these places. But I'm serious about dropping this for now, I see little reason to continue, and will most likely not respond to any more comments directed at me for the time being.
I'm going to repeat my self...
To me, it's really a no-brainer (so, I guess I qualify ).
John 10
28...I give unto them eternal life;
How long is eternity?
and they shall never perish,
When will I perish?
neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
Who can pluck me out of His hand?
29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all;
God is greater than who?
And no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. 30 I and my Father are one.
Am I greater than God?
With this added comment from the Gospel of John from which the statement above was taken.
john 20
30 And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book:
31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
And 1 John...
1 John 5
13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
The Word of God says that we can have eternal life and that we can K-N-O-W it.
So there!
HankD
To me, it's really a no-brainer (so, I guess I qualify ).
John 10
28...I give unto them eternal life;
How long is eternity?
and they shall never perish,
When will I perish?
neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
Who can pluck me out of His hand?
29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all;
God is greater than who?
And no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. 30 I and my Father are one.
Am I greater than God?
With this added comment from the Gospel of John from which the statement above was taken.
john 20
30 And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book:
31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
And 1 John...
1 John 5
13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
The Word of God says that we can have eternal life and that we can K-N-O-W it.
So there!
HankD
Hank D you are a brother that is speaking my language... Eternal Security!... The pearl of great price when you find it!... Priceless!... Your Primitive Baptist friend... Brother Glen
Helen what can I say another great post... The clincher is... Our lives are hid with Christ in God. We are not our own. Eternal Security nothing like it in this world or the world to come!... No wonder we are admonished to come and see just how amazing... Amazing Grace really is!
... Your Primitive Baptist friend Brother Glen