POD

No, I'm not trying to pin anything on them or attach someone else's alleged sins. The fact that they participate in functions like Ozfest gives the appearance that they condone such un-Christian fellowship/association/etc. I'm not making accusations against POD directly, but the impression they give leaves much to be desired.

Whether they actually associate with them or not is a moot point. They are in direct conflict with the Bible's instruction to "not give the appearance of evil".

They thank him for his participation on the insert of one of their CD's (not sure which one, I'll have to look).

??? As I've said before, The only quote I've seen is "we believe in God".

Point taken.

Then why include the others in his statement? And, if he has such problems, Why wasn't he corrected by the others?

Didn't see this. I'll check it out.

I think anyone who survived high-school can tell you why.

 

Why?

Did it ever occur to you that the problem is with your perception of them?

You've got that a little bit backwards, don't you?

That verse isn't about our not appearing evil, but about our staying away from evil and false teaching.

What???? They said "thank you"? Those animals!

But you purposely assume that that's all they've said

I don't know. You seem to know men's hearts, why don't you tell us?

How do you know he wasn't?

[/QUOTE]I think anyone who survived high-school can tell you why. [/QUOTE]

Well, you're not in high school anymoere. You're expected to know better now.

 

Looks like I must repeat myself. Jesus ate with sinners and the Pharisees liked to think that by doing so, Jesus was condoning their behavior (he wasn't but that's what they thought based on what they saw, their being wrong did not change their opinion). It's ludicrous to claim that just being in at the same place as the "wrong crowd". If you're going to condemn POD, at least point out what they themselves are doing which is so wrong, rather than what's wrong with the people around them.

 

I've been waiting for someone to point out faults in my reasoning! no one yet?

 

I've been waiting for someone to point out faults in my reasoning! no one yet? </font>[/QUOTE]It's not your verses that are the problem. It's much simpler: You need to give examples of how they are doing the things which the verses condemn.

For example, the Bible says adultery is wrong. Saying that somebody is evil because adultery is wrong is silly unless you can show that the person actually committed adultery.

 

dualhunter, what would you qualify as evidence of "friendship with the World" (the charge i am laying)?
I think PNK and some others have listed it.

having said that, i would still say that that is not the point i'm driving at, which you still fail to see.
I'm saying, working backwards, we find that the world embraces POD (or just fill in any Christian pop band you like). WHereas the Lord says that in this world, expect tribulation. It doesn't add up.

 

I am generally liked where I work, and yet my co-workers are "of the world". Have I failed to abstain from the appearance of evil?. Do I need to be more confrontational so as to make enemies? Since you seem to be the keeper of knowledge regarding Christian conduct maybe you can tell me just what the correct way is for me to make myself a point of contact to draw the unsaved to the Gospel.

 

Dualhunter got me thinking...aren't these charges almost exactly like the charges brought against Jesus by the Pharisees? Since POD is "associating" with sinners they must be a part of them, birds of a feather and all. That seems remarkably similar to Mark 2:15-16.

I was listening to Satellite the other day, and one of the songs struck me as perfect for this thread:
Ridiculous

Skillfully tested, rhythmically possessed with rhymes
And when it was time, Jah gave me the mic after he blessed it
He said share the loving, prepare them for the Second Coming
Beware of the false prophets, because they got my people bugg'n
Put on the full armor, cause you know these fools they're gonna wanna
Talk behind your back, but stay away from the drama
You know that I'm gonna keep you safe inside the palm of my hand
Cause you the man and that's word to your mama
So give it to 'em, it's themselves that they're fool'n
Gotta head of the game too quick, what they lack is ol' school'n
You know who's who, whether or not I'm talking to your crew
It's up to you to keep it true, nuff respect due.

I don't know who POD was refering to by "these fools they're gonna wanna
Talk behind your back," but with all the criticism they've received from "Christians," could it be...

God bless,
`JD

P.S. I'm NOT trying to infer that anyone here is a fool, so don't get upset reading my post the wrong way.

 

Nope, it isn't. And it shouldn't be, that verse was a mistake, it was added in later manuscripts much like John 5:4. That's one of the problems with the KJV, it didn't use the oldest manuscripts so it's less accurate.
And yes, I would agree with your statement. Of course, my bible isn't a "watered-down" bible, it's just one that's comprehensible. BTW I was using the NIV.

 

There's a forum for Bible Version discussions. Let's keep this one about music.

 

Please bear with me as i slowly explain what i mean.

Firstly, do you acknowledge that i did not quote the verses out of context? THat Jesus said the gospel is an offense to the unsaved world and that in this world, Christians will have tribulation for His name's sake? Like as in, if you want to live for Jesus, it will not be a smooth and easy road to take.

 

Well, i am not "the keeper of knowledge" as much as you should be one, since, you too, carry a bible!

Two people, christian A and christian B. Both are liked by their colleagues at work.

Christian A (and i proudly use my dear husband as my model for Christian A) is well liked at work because he has all the values that God teaches us to strive for in His Word. He is trustworthy, dependable, hard-working, doesn't cut corners. As importantly, he is friendly and amicable. For the bible says:

Proverbs 18:24 A man that hath friends must shew himself friendly: and there is a friend that sticketh closer than a brother.

Christian A is respected by his peers and they know who they can trust when they have a problem.
If they have problems with their kids at home, they will turn to Christian A for advice because they know he has wisdom.

However, when it comes to worldly activities that his unsaved colleagues endulge in, like going to the pub after work, he will decline the invitation.
When he is invited into gossipy conversation, he will withdraw.
Unsaved people respect him for the strength of character he possesses.

There are things that he can do that are within the boundaries that the Lord has set that he can make contact with unsaved people. But when it goes into the territory where his testimony will be put into question or the name of Jesus be tarnished, Christian A (like a faithful soldier) will not participate in it.


Christian B has no qualms about joning his colleagues in anything and everything they do for fun. anything and everything. He knows all the latest movie titles and the up-coming popstar. he has strong opinions about who should win The American Idol.

unsaved colleagues all think he's real fun and a great guys to hang out with.
he joins in their dirty jokes, gossip and back biting.

However, no body knows he's a Christian. In fact, people are commonly surprised to find out he goes to church on Sunday.
people think, cool, i can be a christian and not have to change a single thing about my life. However the Bible says:

2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.


The question is, does Christian A or Christian B have the biblical model?

Matthew 5:13-16 Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men. Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid. Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house. Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

 

of course, you can see that i am biased towards the Christian A model. If you do not agree with the way i have painted Christian B, feel free to do your own portrait of him and the verses to back up. Thanks

 

Ok...so besides contradicting you're earlier claim that Christians must be despised by the world...what's the point of your post???

 

are you Christian A or Christian B, JD?

i said you (well, i was referring to Travelsong, but since you responded...)have to be patient!


in response to the verses you quoted in another thread about Jesus "hanging out with sinners", Christian A is what i believe the bible means when it recorded that Jesus ate with sinners. This is the closest we can get without contradicting the same bible that claims that Jesus was the spotless Lamb of God who was without sin.

Someone else pointed out in another thread, Jesus did not partake in the sin. It is dangerous for us to claim that Jesus was with sinners as if to the point He was unrecognisable for His holiness. This is what POD misses out on.

to further drive the point that Jesus did love the sinner but hates the sin, the woman caught in adultery:

John 8:10-11 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee? She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and []sin no more.

Jesus hates sin. We should too. Does that make us pharisaical?

 

so, to answer the question, no, christians are to show themselves friendly and not turn people off by being offensive and confrontational. We don't purposely go out to make enemies. Jesus didn't. He came not to condemn.

John 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

And yet:
John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

____________________________________

So how do we reconcile:

John 16:33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.


Actually i have pointed out before, the gospel itself is offensive because it brings to light all the hidden sins that unsaved people that to keep in the dark.


John 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

the atheist is going to hate that you tell him there is a God and he has sin and needs to repent.

the Buddhist (or hindu, etc. etc.) is going to hate that you say Jesus is the way, the truth and the life, no man cometh to the Father but by Him.

the carnal man is going to hate that you say that God is Holy and therefore we must be holy. and Ungodly ways lead to destruction.

the truth must be told, albeit, in love, but it MUST be told because love will sound the alarm. If my unsaved loved ones are knowingly on the path of destruction, you will want to cry out and do all you can to make them turn around!

Are we as Christians, the light of the world, to gloss over the sins of the world, and even become like one of the world in order to win the world? NO! What kind of "salvation" is this?

Can you see why i cannot approve of POD's (and all others with the same philosophy) method of evangelism?

Please, check your beliefs and practices against the whole Word of God.

 

Doesn't really matter for this discussion. Whatever I am, I'm still just a filthy sinner who's been forgiven, just like you. Too many people forget this.

Did I say otherwise?

How so? How did POD "miss?" Please enlighten us, I missed it.

Did I say otherwise? Has POD said otherwise? If so, please show me the quote.

No, what makes you "pharisaical" is when you condemn POD for associating with sinners. You don't have a clue what they do on the road, you don't have a clue how POD acts. Yet you assume and publicly accuse POD of being...well...satanic. Very "pharisaical."

As for your second post, frankly it was as clear as mud. However it did have a very nice "righteous" overtone to it. One thing...

So what exactly is POD's method of evangelism that you have such a problem with? Showing people love, telling them what God has done in their lives and the joy he's brought them? Yeah, I can see how that's a problem.

God bless,
~JD

 

No. But you didn't say that Jesus did not partake in their sins. You left it as if Jesus wanted so badly to win sinners that He lowered Himself to be like a sinner. The way POD does.

Holiness....

No one can look at POD and say, "my, what a fine, godly bunch of lads. They must be christian."

Tatoos everywhere, cussing. I'm not even talking about the music.

(Why do your parents insist that you dress properly, JD?)

Now, when did i do that?
Check it out. I never did that.

I've said it before, i'll say it again:

I've shared this before. THere is a female pastor of a mega church here who launched a pop career and even made it to the last MTV asia Awards. She is using her pop music, described as "feel-good", "hip-hop", her dance moves, her J Lo inspired outfits, to be popular.

And i said, on the newspapers, her gigs are called concerts but on the church website, they're called "Evangelistic rallies".

The whole church is praying behind her. They justify it by saying it is "good music", and not about sex and violence. They want to claim the music industry for God. throngs youngsters are flocking to the church for "suspect" reasons.

This kind of Christianity doesn't require repentance of sin or humbling oneself before a Holy God.

Come as you are! Jesus will take you anyway. Leave as you are.

I hope i'm making myself more clear.

 

Not necessarily. Though I think that such influence of entertainment gimmicks can be distracting, you can't assume they are not teaching repentance, as if it's only traditional services that can do that.

 

Tattoos? That's the best you can do?

What cussing? Examples, please.

God forbid we should examine the music on it's own merits.

Much better that we should judge them by their outward appearance.