Points of disagreement.

[37818]

The Penal Substitution Theory of Atonement is a theory. The reason is it is not in the Bible.

The Term Trinity is not in the Bible either.
Penal Substitution is understood to be taught in Isaiah 53:6 and Romans 5:8.

 

[JonC]

The Term Trinity is not in the Bible either.
Penal Substitution is understood to be taught in Isaiah 53:6 and Romans 5:8.

Strawman.

The term is not BUT I am not saying that the term even should be in the Bible.

I am talking about doctrine. Who cares what we call the doctrines????

Isaiah 53 and Romans 5 do not actually teach Penal Substitution Theory. Those chapters teach what God has delivered to us as that text.

You read the theory into the passages.

That is why you cannot highlight that God punished Jesus for our sins in your Bible. You can't provide the words you are translating "Jesus suffered God's wrath".


You hold a re-formed Roman Catholic theory based on a legal philosophy that has died because it proved false.

IF you believed the actual text of Scripture you would see the foolishness of your theory. But I was once there as well. I understand you cannot.

 

[37818]

Strawman.

The term is not BUT I am not saying that the term even should be in the Bible.

I am talking about doctrine. Who cares what we call the doctrines????

Isaiah 53 and Romans 5 do not actually teach Penal Substitution Theory. Those chapters teach what God has delivered to us as that text.

You read the theory into the passages.

That is why you cannot highlight that God punished Jesus for our sins in your Bible. You can't provide the words you are translating "Jesus suffered God's wrath".


You hold a re-formed Roman Catholic theory based on a legal philosophy that has died because it proved false.

IF you believed the actual text of Scripture you would see the foolishness of your theory. But I was once there as well. I understand you cannot.

We do not agree on too many things here which confuses issues.

The texts of the transaction stands.

What I had cited.

Isaiah 53:6, All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

Romans 5:8, But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

 

[JonC]

We do not agree on too many things here which confuses issues.

The texts of the transaction stands.

What I had cited.

Isaiah 53:6, All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

Romans 5:8, But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

We agree on the text, and probably more.

God laid our iniquity on Christ (and God lays Christ's righteousness on us).

While we were sinners Christ died for us.

You will get no objections from me regarding the text.

I was objecting to the idea that Jesus experienced God's wrath.


Now, some may believe that God laying our iniquity on Jesus means it was taken from us and put on Him....but that would mean Christ is unrighteous today as God lays Jesus' righteousness on us.

 

[37818]

I was objecting to the idea that Jesus experienced God's wrath.

And what did I qualify about God's "wrath" "on Christ" in this thread?

 

[JonC]

And what did I qualify about God's "wrath" "on Christ" in this thread?

I do not mean I was objecting to your post. I mean that was my objection on this thread.

I was not saying you believe Jesus suffered God's wrath. Sorry if it seemed so. I mixed up threads.