Poles and Czechs: 'Betrayal'

[carpro]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090918/ap_on_re_eu/eu_eastern_europe_missile_defense_22

Poles, Czechs: US missile defense shift a betrayal

By VANESSA GERA, Associated Press Writer Vanessa Gera, Associated Press Writer – Fri Sep 18, 8:10 am ET

WARSAW, Poland – Poles and Czechs voiced deep concern Friday at President Barack Obama's decision to scrap a Bush-era missile defense shield planned for their countries.

"Betrayal! The U.S. sold us to Russia and stabbed us in the back," the Polish tabloid Fakt declared on its front page.

Polish President Lech Kaczynski said he was concerned that Obama's new strategy leaves Poland in a dangerous "gray zone" between Western Europe and the old Soviet sphere.

Recent events in the region have rattled nerves throughout central and eastern Europe, a region controlled by Moscow during the Cold War, including the war last summer between Russia and Georgia and ongoing efforts by Russia to regain influence in Ukraine. A Russian cutoff of gas to Ukraine last winter left many Europeans without heat.

The Bush administration's plan would have been "a major step in preventing various disturbing trends in our region of the world," Kaczynski said in a guest editorial in the daily Fakt and also carried on his presidential Web site.

 

[Johnv]

This is probably a sidebar comment, but how come other countries tell us it's not our place to be the world's police, but when we remove defense weapons, many of those same countries accuse us of abandoning them. Whassupwiddat??

 

[alatide]

This is probably a sidebar comment, but how come other countries tell us it's not our place to be the world's police, but when we remove defense weapons, many of those same countries accuse us of abandoning them. Whassupwiddat??

Also, many here have complained about the lack of action to defend against potential use of nuclear weapons by Iran. That's what Obama's plan does. we can no longer afford to be the world's policeman. We have to deploy our resources in the best way to serve american interests.

 

[JohnDeereFan]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090918/ap_on_re_eu/eu_eastern_europe_missile_defense_22

Poles, Czechs: US missile defense shift a betrayal

By VANESSA GERA, Associated Press Writer Vanessa Gera, Associated Press Writer – Fri Sep 18, 8:10 am ET

WARSAW, Poland – Poles and Czechs voiced deep concern Friday at President Barack Obama's decision to scrap a Bush-era missile defense shield planned for their countries.

"Betrayal! The U.S. sold us to Russia and stabbed us in the back," the Polish tabloid Fakt declared on its front page.

Polish President Lech Kaczynski said he was concerned that Obama's new strategy leaves Poland in a dangerous "gray zone" between Western Europe and the old Soviet sphere.

Recent events in the region have rattled nerves throughout central and eastern Europe, a region controlled by Moscow during the Cold War, including the war last summer between Russia and Georgia and ongoing efforts by Russia to regain influence in Ukraine. A Russian cutoff of gas to Ukraine last winter left many Europeans without heat.

The Bush administration's plan would have been "a major step in preventing various disturbing trends in our region of the world," Kaczynski said in a guest editorial in the daily Fakt and also carried on his presidential Web site.

Political scientists have been warning about the resurrection of the Soviet Union for years now. I believe this may be the first big step in that direction.

 

[Winman]

Also, many here have complained about the lack of action to defend against potential use of nuclear weapons by Iran. That's what Obama's plan does. we can no longer afford to be the world's policeman. We have to deploy our resources in the best way to serve american interests.

Alatide, if you read the article, the Poles and Czechs are worried about Russia, not Iran. While Iran is a danger, the Russians are a far greater danger.

If anything, Obama has just given the green light for the Russians to roll their tanks in and re-establish the Soviet Union.

 

[Crabtownboy]

Russia scraps missile placement after Barack Obama dismantles shield

From the Prague Post ... the English language Czech newspaper.

RUSSIA has shelved a plan to place Iskander missiles in its Baltic exclave Kaliningrad after the US yesterday dropped its scheme for a missile shield in eastern Europe.

Iskander missiles would not be positioned in Kaliningrad, a military source told the Interfax news agency last night: "Undoubtedly, Washington's cancellation of its missile defence facilities will not remain unnoticed. The array of measures planned in response to the deployment of the missile defence sites in Europe will be frozen, and possibly completely cancelled," the source added.

The source specified one key measure being frozen was a plan to place short-range Iskander missiles in Russia's westernmost Kaliningrad exclave, next to EU members Poland and Lithuania.

He said Russia would also re-examine other military countermeasures it had considered in response to the US missile shield.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,26093407-26397,00.html

Also, here is an article from the Prague radio as published in the Prague Post ... the English language newspaper. You can listen to the program as well as read an interesting article on this topic.

What are the implications of US change of direction on missile defence?
http://www.radio.cz/en/article/120423

 

[Magnetic Poles]

Alatide, if you read the article, the Poles and Czechs are worried about Russia, not Iran. While Iran is a danger, the Russians are a far greater danger.

If anything, Obama has just given the green light for the Russians to roll their tanks in and re-establish the Soviet Union.

So you are saying Bush lied about the rationale for the missiles? That they are to be used against Russia?

 

[Revmitchell]

So you are saying Bush lied about the rationale for the missiles? That they are to be used against Russia?

It is a defense system...helloooooo! Anyone home?

 

[KenH]

I thought conservatives' foreign policy was to not care what other nations think about the actions of the United States. So why are some conservatives posting about what the Poles and Czechs think?


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P.S. Yes, KenH is posting in the Politics forum. Gonna test the waters and see if I can stick to only issues this time around and not get into any personal brouhahas.

 

[carpro]

I thought conservatives' foreign policy was to not care what other nations think about the actions of the United States. So why are some conservatives posting about what the Poles and Czechs think?

Along the same lines, liberals complained bitterly that Bush supposedly did not consult our allies. He did, but they complained nevertheless. The allies didn't. They knew better.

This time, it's the allies complaining because they really were not consulted, or even advised by anything but white house announcement.

Obama's arrogance and imperiousness, along with his brainless approach to foreign affairs, is on display once again.

 

[Revmitchell]

I thought conservatives' foreign policy was to not care what other nations think about the actions of the United States. So why are some conservatives posting about what the Poles and Czechs think?

Not sure why it is difficult to see the difference but just to help you out you should know that those two countries would find it very difficult and in fact impossible to defend themselves against countries like Russia or Iran. We, under the Bush admin, committed to posting a defense only missile system in their region which would assist in their defense as well as address our our concerns. Reasonable suspicion lends to a concern over whether Russia would want to take over these two countries.

Now we have gone back on our word in this regard. There is no aspect of this move that lends to the credibility of the United States and only hurts it with regards to our allies. Much of the "I do not care what they think" attitude you have seen from conservatives was not in regards to allies but to our enemies. And rightly so.

Add to this those who characterize what we told these two countries we were going to do as simply "missiles" only characterize the situation and it give the appearance that it is done to make it look worse that reality in order to have an excuse to demonize the situation and defend Obama and his decision. But it is not grounded on reality.

 

[OldRegular]

Also, many here have complained about the lack of action to defend against potential use of nuclear weapons by Iran. That's what Obama's plan does. we can no longer afford to be the world's policeman. We have to deploy our resources in the best way to serve american interests.

If Obama said the world was flat "whoever" would holler Amen Bro.

 

[OldRegular]

I thought conservatives' foreign policy was to not care what other nations think about the actions of the United States. So why are some conservatives posting about what the Poles and Czechs think?


-------------------
P.S. Yes, KenH is posting in the Politics forum. Gonna test the waters and see if I can stick to only issues this time around and not get into any personal brouhahas.

Just for those who are uninformed! Conservative foreign policy is to do what is best for the United States. That is something that the liberals in this country have never understood. They always thought we should do what was best for the Soviet Union, even to the point of unilateral disarmament.

 

[Magnetic Poles]

It is a defense system...helloooooo! Anyone home?

That's what I wonder about you. It is a defense system ostensibly against the Iranian threat, not the Russians. So again, I guess Bush lied. Imagine that. :laugh:

 

[Magnetic Poles]

Just for those who are uninformed! Conservative foreign policy is to do what is best for the United States. That is something that the liberals in this country have never understood. They always thought we should do what was best for the Soviet Union, even to the point of unilateral disarmament.

What a patently ridiculous statement. Do you think only cons have bled and die on the battlefield in defense of the USA? You denigrate any liberal minded American soldiers who love this nation and have paid the ultimate price for your right to malign them. Shame on you.

 

[targus]

What a patently ridiculous statement. Do you think only cons have bled and die on the battlefield in defense of the USA? You denigrate any liberal minded American soldiers who love this nation and have paid the ultimate price for your right to malign them. Shame on you.

I wasn't aware that soldiers in the field set foreign policy.

Thank you for your strawman attack.

 

[Magnetic Poles]

I wasn't aware that soldiers in the field set foreign policy.

Thank you for your strawman attack.

There's that total lack of reading comprehension again. OR mentioned "liberals always thought...". Not liberals setting policy...all liberals. You might do well to chill out and read twice before shooting off foolish statements.

Or if you insist on being foolish, at least have your comments have some connection to what you are commenting about.

 

[OldRegular]

What a patently ridiculous statement. Do you think only cons have bled and die on the battlefield in defense of the USA? You denigrate any liberal minded American soldiers who love this nation and have paid the ultimate price for your right to malign them. Shame on you.

I doubt you will find many political liberals, particularly those like Kerry and Durbin, in uniform now except perhaps some officers. Also MP you knew that I was referring to liberal politicians and others like you, CBT, and "whoever". I realize there are some who vote democrat that don't want to give the country away or convert it to a Socialist States of America.

 

[alatide]

Alatide, if you read the article, the Poles and Czechs are worried about Russia, not Iran. While Iran is a danger, the Russians are a far greater danger.

If anything, Obama has just given the green light for the Russians to roll their tanks in and re-establish the Soviet Union.

A quote from the article. Obama's plan could serve as a deterrent to both Iran and Russia. I don't think that was within the scope of Bush's iniative.

Secretary of Defense Robert Gates said he still sees a chance for Poles and Czechs to participate in the redesigned missile defense system.

 

[Magnetic Poles]

I doubt you will find many political liberals, particularly those like Kerry and Durbin, in uniform now except perhaps some officers. Also MP you knew that I was referring to liberal politicians and others like you, CBT, and "whoever". I realize there are some who vote democrat that don't want to give the country away or convert it to a Socialist States of America.

More attacks. You don't know how to engage in dialog without them, do you. I don't set policy any more than you do. And FYI, I proudly served in the US Army defending your freedom.