Political and Religious Topic, I am torn...

[skypair]

Or.....it could be that Christ did come and split the mount of olives at His first advent. Christ's coming caused a great divide between believing and unbelieving Jews. Part of Israel was "cut off" for unbelief.

1) Read the passage, Zech 14.

2) Try the LITERAL option first before you grab at the ALLEGORICAL.

3) So no, Zech 14 is very descriptive of the scene of Armageddon mentioned elsewhere as well and, no, it is not allegorical.

skypair

 

[Amy.G]

1) Read the passage, Zech 14.

2) Try the LITERAL option first before you grab at the ALLEGORICAL.

3) So no, Zech 14 is very descriptive of the scene of Armageddon mentioned elsewhere as well and, no, it is not allegorical.

skypair

I will read the passage with a fine toothed comb.

I would like to ask, why do we think these OT prophecies were for the church? Weren't they for the Jews? Didn't Jesus say that if the Jews had read and believed the Law and the Prophets that they would have recognized Him? If the Jews of Jesus day had read this particular passage and understood it, wouldn't they have recognized that He was fulfilling it and that He was standing on the Mt. of Olives?

 

[skypair]

I would like to ask, why do we think these OT prophecies were for the church?

Some think that because a) they can't rightly divide the word and b) they omit the pretrib rapture of the true church. Now having said that, there is an apostate part of the church that doesn't believe in pretrib rapture and will be left in the trib. According to them, all these "Israel" prophecies apply to them somehow. That may be where you are getting that from.

Having said that, I can even suggest which churches in Rev 2-3 will be all or partly left behind. You will find amil/postmil Sardis among them. They are not good "watchmen." The "thief" (Rev 3:3) will "break up" their "house" because they don't know at what time the thief is coming, Mt 24:40-44! Same with Pergamum, Rev 2:16! In our time, allegoriziing scriptures that are literal is simply "idle speculation!"

If the Jews of Jesus day had read this particular passage and understood it, wouldn't they have recognized that He was fulfilling it and that He was standing on the Mt. of Olives?

Or --- isn't that a good sign that they didn't take it allegorically and neither should we?

See, this wasn't this particular prophecy that they missed. What they missed was Psa 22, Isa 53, etal. And you, if you can't or won't "rightly divide" the word, will come unawares to the "day of Christ."

skypair

 

[Amy.G]

Some think that because a) they can't rightly divide the word and b) they omit the pretrib rapture of the true church. Now having said that, there is an apostate part of the church that doesn't believe in pretrib rapture and will be left in the trib. According to them, all these "Israel" prophecies apply to them somehow. That may be where you are getting that from.

Well, I'll have to disagree with you that folks who don't hold to the pre-trib rapture view are apostate! This is not an issue that decides salvation.

Having said that, I can even suggest which churches in Rev 2-3 will be all or partly left behind. You will find amil/postmil Sardis among them. They are not good "watchmen." The "thief" (Rev 3:3) will "break up" their "house" because they don't know at what time the thief is coming, Mt 24:40-44! Same with Pergamum, Rev 2:16! In our time, allegoriziing scriptures that are literal is simply "idle speculation!"

The church will not be caught off guard regardless of our differences of eschatology. It is the unbelieving world that will experience the thief in the night and will be caught unaware.

Or --- isn't that a good sign that they didn't take it allegorically and neither should we?

Sky, they missed their own Messiah! We shouldn't try to imitate their ignorance or stubbornness.

See, this wasn't this particular prophecy that they missed. What they missed was Psa 22, Isa 53, etal. And you, if you can't or won't "rightly divide" the word, will come unawares to the "day of Christ."

It makes no sense to me that God sent prophets to Israel to tell of future events for the NT church. They would have never been able to understand that.

 

[skypair]

The church will not be caught off guard regardless of our differences of eschatology. It is the unbelieving world that will experience the thief in the night and will be caught unaware.

Yes, but can you say the obverse? Can you say that the rapture will not catch some of the church off guard and not ready to go, Mt 25:1-13??? No, you can't.

Sky, they missed their own Messiah! We shouldn't try to imitate their ignorance or stubbornness.

Who is? Truth is that allegorical interpretations don't see God's FUTURE plans for Israe IN THE ABSENCE OF THE TRUE CHURCH.

It makes no sense to me that God sent prophets to Israel to tell of future events for the NT church. They would have never been able to understand that.

Know why? Because He set them in "mysteries" that He didn't reveal to them. Example: OT "heart of flesh" means "God/Christ in us" today!

So they told of the NT church in "mystery" and of the literal events that would happen to Israel in "clear text." Look at Isa 57:1-2. What does it remind YOU of? To me, it's the rapture of the church! "The righteous perisheth [Adrian Rogers, Jerry Falwell, etal.] , and no man layeth it to heart: and merciful men are taken away [church], none considering that the righteous is taken away from the evil to come."

Paul described it as "rest with us" (2Thes 1:7) while Christ takes vengeance (Rev 6:10) on those who persecute them! But what is an OT Jew to think of Isa 57:1-2????

We're close, Amy. If you need help seeing it, please let me know. I have nothing to gain -- just want your best.

skypair

 

[Marcia]

Sorry Marcia, you were not the target of this statement.

Looking back over my post I can see how you got this impression, but be assured you were not the target. I shifted gears after the 1st paragraph, but failed to so note.

......Again, my apologies for not being clear in this regard!!!!:thumbs:

Thanks, just-want-peace for the explanation! No worries! :wavey:

 

[Beth]

Hi Amy!

1) Read the passage, Zech 14.

2) Try the LITERAL option first before you grab at the ALLEGORICAL.

3) So no, Zech 14 is very descriptive of the scene of Armageddon mentioned elsewhere as well and, no, it is not allegorical.

skypair

HI Amy,
Eschatology makes a great study, doesn't it....and I must admit there is still alot that I haven't figured out.

The approach my husband and I try to maintain is to interpret the unclear Scriptures through the clear Scriptures. We take Zechariah 14, for example, to mean that literally, at Christ's Return, the Mount of Olives will cleave in two...this is intended to allow the remnant to escape right before Christ fights His enemies. We would take that as a very clear Scripture.

Yes, Christ did stand on the Mount of Olives, but it didn't cleave in two at the time. Yes, the people were divided over Christ, but that interpretation would necessitate the Mount of Olives as representative of the people of Israel...you would have to then search the Scriptures to see if the Mount of Olives represents the people of Israel anywhere else in the Scriptures.

However, this is certainly not a salvation issue....Thank the Lord we are saved by faith, and not by knowing every nuance of eschatology!

Your sis in Christ,
Beth