Poll: “Many are saved having never heard the gospel”?

[canadyjd]

The most important thing is that GOD is love and He is sovereign. Yes we are saved by receiving the gospel message but I am surprised that you would think that God can only do what you think He can do. When you say all we need to know about God is in the bible you seem to forget that we are also told that He desires all to be saved and yet you think it is fine if that really means just those that happen to hear the proper words.

If I recall calvinists are the ones that call the simple gospel message "easy believism" so by your logic most are not saved because they did not even hear the gospel the right way.

God is sovereign over His sovereignty so for someone to tell Him He can't is the height of hubris.

Please address Galatians 1:7-8. You are clearly expressing another gospel that does not include Christ and Him crucified. Paul says anyone presenting another gospel, other than Christ and Him crucified is to be accursed.

That is very strong language from Paul and clearly refutes your claim “many are saved having never heard the gospel”.

Do you even attempt to reconcile this passage with your belief?

peace to you

 

[Dave G]

" Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 by which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain." ( 1 Corinthians 15:1-12 ).

 

[Silverhair]

Please address Galatians 1:7-8. You are clearly expressing another gospel that does not include Christ and Him crucified. Paul says anyone presenting another gospel, other than Christ and Him crucified is to be accursed.

That is very strong language from Paul and clearly refutes your claim “many are saved having never heard the gospel”.

Do you even attempt to reconcile this passage with your belief?

peace to you

I am not presenting another gospel I am just saying that you do not trust that God is actually sovereign. Why do you deny the He is?

 

[Silverhair]

" Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 by which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain." ( 1 Corinthians 15:1-12 ).

See post # 43

 

[Dave G]

See post # 43

" Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." ( John 14:6 ).

" be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, [even] by him doth this man stand here before you whole.
11 This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.
12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved." ( Acts of the Apostles 4:10-12 ).


" He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him." ( John 3:36 ).

" He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.
11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
12 He that hath the Son hath life; [and] he that hath not the Son of God hath not life." ( 1 John 5:11-12 ).

Respectfully,
There is no such thing as someone who is saved who who has not believed God's word about His Son...

No one.


Good evening to you, and may He bless you in many ways.

 

[canadyjd]

I am not presenting another gospel I am just saying that you do not trust that God is actually sovereign. Why do you deny the He is?

You are claiming that “many are saved having never heard the gospel”. That is, without question or debate, another gospel than Jesus Christ and Him crucified.

Please address Galatians 1:7-8 and explain how your gospel that doesn’t include Christ and Him crucified is not another gospel that warrants condemnation and being “accursed” according to the Apostle Paul.

peace to you

 

[Silverhair]

" Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." ( John 14:6 ).

" be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, [even] by him doth this man stand here before you whole.
11 This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.
12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved." ( Acts of the Apostles 4:10-12 ).


" He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him." ( John 3:36 ).

" He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.
11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
12 He that hath the Son hath life; [and] he that hath not the Son of God hath not life." ( 1 John 5:11-12 ).

Respectfully,
There is no such thing as someone who is saved who who has not believed God's word about His Son...

No one.


Good evening to you, and may He bless you in many ways.

I fully understand what you have said and I have to disagree with you as you have to answer what do we do with all the OT saints. And I still ask why do you not trust in the sovereign God to do what He pleases? If you think everything about God has been written in the bible then you would seem to have a very limited view of God.

 

[Silverhair]

You are claiming that “many are saved having never heard the gospel”. That is, without question or debate, another gospel than Jesus Christ and Him crucified.

Please address Galatians 1:7-8 and explain how your gospel that doesn’t include Christ and Him crucified is not another gospel that warrants condemnation and being “accursed” according to the Apostle Paul.

peace to you

I have gone over this many times but you just refuse to trust in a sovereign God. Your blind spot not mine.

 

[Marooncat79]

If the Gospel is not necessary and God provides another way then why would we ever preach to them since that only increases their judgement

 

[canadyjd]

I have gone over this many times but you just refuse to trust in a sovereign God. Your blind spot not mine.

Since you have already addressed Galatians 1:7-8, “many times”, it should be a simple matter to copy and paste what you said.

Or….. are you not being honest about answering my question on Galatians 1:7-8 “many times?

You preach “another gospel” that does not include Jesus Christ and Him crucified. You face condemnation and are subject to being “accursed” according to the words of the Apostle Paul found in Galatians.

That is no small thing to be flippant about.

peace to you

 

[Dave G]

I fully understand what you have said and I have to disagree with you as you have to answer what do we do with all the OT saints.

They were not saved outside of Christ ( Galatians 3:8, 1 Peter 1:10-11 ).

And I still ask why do you not trust in the sovereign God to do what He pleases?

I do.
My question is ( and has been ), why don't you?

If you think everything about God has been written in the bible then you would seem to have a very limited view of God.

What He has chosen to reveal about Himself is all in there, Silverhair...
Including many things that you apparently do not believe.

Good evening to you.

 

[Silverhair]

Since you have already addressed Galatians 1:7-8, “many times”, it should be a simple matter to copy and paste what you said.

Or….. are you not being honest about answering my question on Galatians 1:7-8 “many times?

You preach “another gospel” that does not include Jesus Christ and Him crucified. You face condemnation and are subject to being “accursed” according to the words of the Apostle Paul found in Galatians.

That is no small thing to be flippant about.

peace to you

You obviously have a problem with God being sovereign. From your comments the only way that He can be sovereign is if He does everything just as you would like Him to do it. Sorry to burst your bubble but He does not need your permission to save someone.

By the way Paul was talking about adding works to salvation which it seems you did not know.

Question for you. Do you believe that God is omnibenevolent, is He omnipotent, is He omniscient. If you do then why do you limit what He can do?

 

[Silverhair]

They were not saved outside of Christ ( Galatians 3:8, 1 Peter 1:10-11 ).

I do.
My question is ( and has been ), why don't you?

What He has chosen to reveal about Himself is all in there, Silverhair...
Including many things that you apparently do not believe.

Good evening to you.

I do trust the sovereign God to be able to do as He pleases. It would seem to me that you voice the God is sovereign but you really do not believe that He is.

 

[canadyjd]

You obviously have a problem with God being sovereign. From your comments the only way that He can be sovereign is if He does everything just as you would like Him to do it. Sorry to burst your bubble but He does not need your permission to save someone.

By the way Paul was talking about adding works to salvation which it seems you did not know.

Question for you. Do you believe that God is omnibenevolent, is He omnipotent, is He omniscient. If you do then why do you limit what He can do?

If you are not going to explain why your gospel, that doesn’t include “Jesus Christ and Him crucified”, is somehow not “another gospel” from Jesus Christ and Him crucified, I would appreciate it if you would take your gaslighting nonsensical comments somewhere else.

People are attempting to have a serious discussion here.

peace to you

 

[Silverhair]

If you are not going to explain why your gospel, that doesn’t include “Jesus Christ and Him crucified”, is somehow not “another gospel” from Jesus Christ and Him crucified, I would appreciate it if you would take your gaslighting nonsensical comments somewhere else.

People are attempting to have a serious discussion here.

peace to you

If you are not going to trust in the sovereign God then I suggest that you spend more time reading the bible and in prayer and ask for Him to teach you.

The only thing that you seem to consider as a serious discussion is one where people agree with you. You want to limit Gods' authority but at the same time say that God is sovereign. You will have to pick one or the other.

 

[canadyjd]

If you are not going to trust in the sovereign God then I suggest that you spend more time reading the bible and in prayer and ask for Him to teach you.

The only thing that you seem to consider as a serious discussion is one where people agree with you. You want to limit Gods' authority but at the same time say that God is sovereign. You will have to pick one or the other.

You are unable to address Galatians 1:7-8.

Until you do so, I have nothing further to say to you.

Thanks for the conversation

peace to you

 

[Revmitchell]

If you are not going to trust in the sovereign God then I suggest that you spend more time reading the bible and in prayer and ask for Him to teach you.

The only thing that you seem to consider as a serious discussion is one where people agree with you. You want to limit Gods' authority but at the same time say that God is sovereign. You will have to pick one or the other.

You do not know this about that person. Ive been on this board a long time. Everything I know about them is the opposite of that. You are quick to level accusations about others. They have little patience with that but more than most.

 

[canadyjd]

You do not know this about that person. Ive been on this board a long time. Everything I know about them is the opposite of that. You are quick to level accusations about others. They have little patience with that but more than most.

That has a lot of merit as an observation. I’m working on my patience, but know I’m still quick to take offense at times.

All those fights with my brothers (and sisters) as a kid makes it hard to let things pass without responding in kind.

Thanks for a candid appraisal.

Peace to you

 

[Alcott]

The Bible teaches that one must accept the gospel to be saved; not that one must reject the gospel to be lost. IOW is one in danger of perdition until one accepts the gospel, or is one "safe" from judgment until one rejects the gospel? If the latter is true, then, depending on what proportion of those who hear it accept it, gospel preaching saves more than it condemns, but only if more accept it than do not. Otherwise, it condemns more. And furthermore, if you believe one must reject the gospel to be lost, then how can you support mission work, which you must think condemns many "safe" people? And if that's the case, how do you not hold the apostles responsible for the condemnation of many, as much as the salvation of many? like Galatia, Philippi, Corinth, et al, should have just been left alone?

 

[Silverhair]

You are unable to address Galatians 1:7-8.

Until you do so, I have nothing further to say to you.

Thanks for the conversation

peace to you

I did answer you but it seems you did not like that answer.

Here it is again
Gal 1:6 I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different G2087 gospel,
Gal 1:7 which is really not another G243; only there are some who are disturbing you and want to distort the gospel of Christ.
Gal 1:8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed!

By the way Paul was talking about adding works to salvation which it seems you did not know.

What I have said is not another gospel. So get over that. What I have said is that God is sovereign and He can and does do as He pleases. You seem to have a struggle with that point.

If people hear the gospel and reject it they are lost if they accept it they will be saved by God. But for some reason you do not allow for God to be God, to be sovereign. Do you really think He is restricted to only doing what the bible says? If you do then you do not trust the sovereign God who is the creator of everything and controls it all.