Poll: #2, Suicide & Lapsi

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

Diggin in da Word:

// 1. All suicides are murder, so they must be from the same cookie cutter. 'Thou Shalt Not Kill'

...

// 3. If one must endure to the end to be saved, then one who does not endure to the end cannot be saved.//

IAW (in accordance with) the Doctrine of Soul Competency
I grant you the right to be illogical as often as you wish.
However, I cannot either prevent you from looking like
a fool:

Pro 29:11 (KJV1611 Edition):
A foole vttereth all his mind:
but a wise man keepeth it in till afterwards.

Matthew 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

 

[Amy.G]

To those who want to mock me, my comment about Hebrews was true. It was written to Jewish Christians for the purpose of encouraging them NOT to turn back to the law. SFIC did not make his point by quoting it.

 

[Claudia_T]

Okay I dont know much about this Once Saved Always Saved Doctrine, but I must be stupid or something because why is this considered to be illogical?

"If one must endure to the end to be saved, then one who does not endure to the end cannot be saved"


Thats like saying If one has to have a brain to think then one who does not have a brain cannot think...

gee that makes sense to me...

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

Here is something I wrote earlier about enduring to the end:
-------------------------


The Thessalonians were familiar with
this saying of Jesus which we now find
recorded in Matthew 24:13 (KJV1873):

But he that shall endure unto
the end, the same shall be saved.

But some said of their friend "He got
sick and died before Jesus came to
get him, poor soul -- he didn't endure
to the end."

Paul addresses this problem in
a clearly pretribulation rapture passage
1 Thessalonians 4:13 - 5:11,
one of the most comforting passages in the
Bible.

1 Thessalonians 4:13 - 5:11 (nKJV):

13 But I do not want you to be ignorant,
brethren, concerning those who have fallen
asleep, lest you sorrow as others who
have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and
rose again, even so God will bring with Him
those who sleep in Jesus.
15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord,
that we who are alive and remain until
the coming of the Lord will by no means
precede those who are asleep.
16 For the Lord Himself will descend
from heaven with a shout, with the voice
of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God.
And the dead in Christ will rise first.
17 Then we who are alive and remain
shall be caught up (LATIN: raptured)
together with them in the clouds to meet
the Lord in the air. And thus we shall
always be with the Lord.
18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.
5:1 But concerning the times and the seasons,
brethren, you have no need that I should
write to you.


2 For you yourselves know perfectly that
the day of the Lord so comes as a thief
in the night.
3 For when they say, "Peace and safety!"
then sudden destruction comes upon them,
as labor pains upon a pregnant woman.
And they shall not escape.
4 But you, brethren, are not in darkness,
so that this Day should overtake
you as a thief.
5 You are all sons of light and sons of the day.
We are not of the night nor of darkness.
6 Therefore let us not sleep, as others do,
but let us watch and be sober.
7 For those who sleep, sleep at night,
and those who get drunk are drunk at night.
8 But let us who are of the day be sober,
putting on the breastplate of faith and love,
and as a helmet the hope of salvation.
9 For God did not appoint us to wrath,
but to obtain salvation through our
Lord Jesus Christ,
10 who died for us, that whether we wake or sleep,
we should live together with Him.
11 Therefore comfort each other and edify
one another, just as you also are doing.

Later the Thessalonians wondered if they
had missed the rapture. Paul corrects this
in a second letter:

2 Thessalonians 2:1-3 (nKJV):

1 Now, brethren, concerning
the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ
and our gathering together to Him,
we ask you,
2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled,
either by spirit or by word or by letter,
as if from us, as though the day of Christ
had come.
3 Let no one deceive you by any means;
for that Day will not come unless
the falling away comes first,
and the man of sin
is revealed, the son of perdition,

The falling away that comes first
is the Rapture!
Then the man of sin is revealed, the
antichrist. Then the Tribulation period
begins.

While the KJV uses "falling away" here, the
English versions before the KJV used a
form of "departure" - again, the idea of
someone leaving this world as in the pretribulation
rapture/resurrection

2 Thessalonians 2:3 (Geneva Bible):
Let no man deceiue you by any meanes: for that day shall
not come, except there come a departing first, and that
that man of sinne be disclosed, euen the sonne of perdition,

There is nothing HAS TO HAPPEN before
the rapture.
Here are some things that could happen
before the rapture but they do NOT
have to happen.

1) The destruction of Damascus (Isaiah 17)
2) the Ezekiel 38 Gog/Magog invastion
(the Ezekiel 39 and Revelation 20:8
Gog/Magog invasion will be after the
Tribulation period)
3) the building of a Temple in Jerusalem
on Mount Moriah north of and alongside
the Dome of the Rock.

But again, these things do not HAVE
TO HAPPEN before the rapture, they may
happen after the rapture; they could happen
before the rapture. They do not HAVE TO
HAPPEN before the imminent pretribulation
rapture.
-----------------------------------------

Ed,

One dying because of sickness does not mean he died of unrepented or unforgiven sin.

But one dying because of blowing his brains all over his bedroom wall did die because of unrepented and unforgiven sin.

 

[Ed Edwards]

His Blood Spoke My Name:
//All scripture was given that the man of God might be perfect.//

You are thinking of this scripture:

2Ti 3:16-17 (KJV1611 Edition):
All Scripture is giuen by inspiration of God, & is profitable
for doctrine, for reproofe, for correction,
for instrution in righteousnesse,
17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished
vnto all good workes.

Note that the English word 'perfect' in the 17th & 18th Centuries
(1601-1800) had the meaning COMPLETE
as well as the 21st Century (2001-2100) meaning of 'perfect:
WITHOUT SIN.

Note that 2 Timothy 3:17 even defines 'perfect': 'throughly furnished'
(in other words 'complete').

Your use of this scripture to damn Sister Amy.G shows you
don't understand this scripture.

 

[Eric B]

Okay I dont know much about this Once Saved Always Saved Doctrine, but I must be stupid or something because why is this considered to be illogical?

"If one must endure to the end to be saved, then one who does not endure to the end cannot be saved"


Thats like saying If one has to have a brain to think then one who does not have a brain cannot think...

gee that makes sense to me...

Apparently it does, maybe not to you, but to the others on your side, since they established last night that the mind functions separately from the brain, and is unaffected by any physical circumstances on the brain!

 

[Claudia_T]

Apparently it does, maybe not to you, but to the others on your side, since they established last night that the mind functions separately from the brain, and is unaffected by any physical circumstances on the brain!

well I was being serious Eric, what am I missing here?


and I thought that was goofy about the brain and all of that, by the way.

 

[rbell]

His Blood Spoke My Name has now been asked at least seven times this question:

"if you were to die with one unconfessed sin, will you go to hell?"

And SEVEN TIMES he has ignored the question.

Answer the question. A simple "yes" or "no" will do.

Answer the question. If you're not afraid of it.

Answer the question. Quit avoiding it.

 

[Claudia_T]

rbell:

I have no problem answering the question.

I think you will. But I also think there are sins we are not aware of, the key is maintaining a clear conscience before God:

Acts:24:16: And herein do I exercise myself, to have always a conscience void of offence toward God, and toward men.


but thats just my opinion..


Jesus is our Mediator, our Advocate... we need to be aware of that and take advantage. And its not just to confess your sins but the thing is that if you make a practice of meditating upon what you have done and/or not done during the day and talking to God about it and asking Him to reveal your sins to you... and confess them then... it helps you to become more aware of what you do and what you need to change ...


Psalms 139:
23: Search me, O God, and know my heart: try me, and know my thoughts:
24: And see if there be any wicked way in me, and lead me in the way everlasting.


But the Seventh Day Adventists believe in the Cleansing of the Sanctuary doctrine which has to do with being cleansed of sin and Jesus acting as our Mediator, etc and so this becomes important to us...

As I was taught ... does this sin mean more to me than Jesus? with each sin you need to ask yourself that question and make a choice.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

The teaching that one does not have to remain grounded and steadfast in the faith is a false doctrine and contrary to the Word of God..

 

[standingfirminChrist]

His Blood Spoke My Name:
//All scripture was given that the man of God might be perfect.//

You are thinking of this scripture:

2Ti 3:16-17 (KJV1611 Edition):
All Scripture is giuen by inspiration of God, & is profitable
for doctrine, for reproofe, for correction,
for instrution in righteousnesse,
17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished
vnto all good workes.

Note that the English word 'perfect' in the 17th & 18th Centuries
(1601-1800) had the meaning COMPLETE
as well as the 21st Century (2001-2100) meaning of 'perfect:
WITHOUT SIN.

Note that 2 Timothy 3:17 even defines 'perfect': 'throughly furnished'
(in other words 'complete').

Your use of this scripture to damn Sister Amy.G shows you
don't understand this scripture.

Ed,

I think the point is that all scriptue was given to perfect man. If man denies scripture to fit his likes or dislikes, such as is being done when one tries to say murderers will be in heaven, then man is not using all scripture and that man will never be perfect. For in adding to, or taking away, he is incurring the wrath of God, not the blessings of Christ.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

His Blood Spoke My Name has now been asked at least seven times this question:

"if you were to die with one unconfessed sin, will you go to hell?"

And SEVEN TIMES he has ignored the question.

Answer the question. A simple "yes" or "no" will do.

Answer the question. If you're not afraid of it.

Answer the question. Quit avoiding it.

Go back and read the posts. I saw HBSMN answer that question more than once. you guys are just refusing to accept his answer.

 

[rbell]

"if you were to die with one unconfessed sin, will you go to hell?"

I don't ask that question to justify sin (although I've been accused of it by some here).

I ask that question to lead to this one: "Can we know that we are saved and will go to heaven when we die?"

If one unconfessed sin and some unfortunate timing mean know, then we cannot be assured of our salvation.

Still waiting for that answer, HBSMN.

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

rbell and amy,

If I showed you in the Word of God that you were in sin and you did not repent but continued in that sin as if you were not shown that sin, would you still go to heaven?

 

[Claudia_T]

The key is having a Good Conscience before God when you die.

Thats about all there is to it.

Claudia

 

[DeeJay]

rbell and amy,

If I showed you in the Word of God that you were in sin and you did not repent but continued in that sin as if you were not shown that sin, would you still go to heaven?

Yes, if you are born again and trusting in the Lord Jesus Christ for your salvation.

You missunderstand what repent is, if you think it is making a list of things you do wrong and asking for forgiveness one by one each night. That would be a works based salvation, would it not?

 

[Amy.G]

rbell and amy,

If I showed you in the Word of God that you were in sin and you did not repent but continued in that sin as if you were not shown that sin, would you still go to heaven?

I don't need you to show me my sin. I have the Spirit of Christ in me and He does that very well.

John 16:13 However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come.

 

[DeeJay]

rbell and amy,

If I showed you in the Word of God that you were in sin and you did not repent but continued in that sin as if you were not shown that sin, would you still go to heaven?

HBSMN

Are we responsable for our own salvation? Do we play a part in saving ourselfs?

 

[Claudia_T]

Amy

thats not even what he asked you

 

[Claudia_T]

HBSMN

Are we responsable for our own salvation? Do we play a part in saving ourselfs?

Actually, unless you are a brainless robot, the answer is YES

You have the ability to make choices and actually read your Bible and do what it says.

and that was the very reason that God gave you the gift of a Brain.