Mark-in-Tx
New Member
This poll is to hear views about the use of Alcohol by Baptist.
[ June 07, 2002, 03:23 PM: Message edited by: Mark-in-Tx ]
[ June 07, 2002, 03:23 PM: Message edited by: Mark-in-Tx ]
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Poll: Alcohol and Baptist
- Thread starter Mark-in-Tx
- Start date
Ernie Brazee
<img src ="/ernie.JPG">
Don't be an idiot....don't drink alcohol!!!!
Ernie
Ernie
There is no comparison between alcoholic beverages today and those in Bible times. Virtually all current alcoholic beverages today qualify as strong drink and are condemned in Scripture. 
"Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright. At the last it biteth like a serpent, and stingeth like an adder."
"Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright. At the last it biteth like a serpent, and stingeth like an adder."
How do you know? "Wine" was enough to get Noah and Lot drunk. In Acts 2, some people thought the Apostles were drunk with "wine". Obviously Biblical "wine" was alcoholic, because it could make one drunk if consumed excessively.
When I read "wine" in my Bible, I believe it - don't you?
Mark-In-Tx you brought up a very delicate subject and don't say I didn't warn you. All I can say is I think I hear the footsteps of Brother Clint or Helen and I will say no more because I'm outa here!... Brother Glen
An alcoholic is not going to be led out of addiction by a drinking witness. If he sees us going into a liquor store to purchase our drug fix, that is a horrendous stumbling-block for the alcoholic.
I help pick up the broken bodies from alcohol abuse, but only God can heal the horrendous wounds caused by the abomination of alcohol. I am apalled at so-called christians which host cocktail parties, and order drinks in bars, and justify consumption of alcohol, and support those companies that are dealing the drugs which destroy homes, shatter lives, and abuse women and children, and murder the innocent on our streets and highways.
No chistian can have a credible witness with a Bible in one hand and a drink in the other, and we need to have a "0" tolerance for alcohol, so as to be used of God to bring the drug addicted to the Cross of Christ, and lead the wounded to the healing hand of Almighty God.
The local bars should be hurting for business when the Baptists come to town, and the rummy in the street should hear the glorious Gospel of Christ. It is certainly not appropriate to be staggering on the Romans Road.
1 Thess. 5:
22
Abstain from all appearance of evil.
23
And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Alcohol is an insidious evil, and ones' use of this drug supports this abomination.
I help pick up the broken bodies from alcohol abuse, but only God can heal the horrendous wounds caused by the abomination of alcohol. I am apalled at so-called christians which host cocktail parties, and order drinks in bars, and justify consumption of alcohol, and support those companies that are dealing the drugs which destroy homes, shatter lives, and abuse women and children, and murder the innocent on our streets and highways.
No chistian can have a credible witness with a Bible in one hand and a drink in the other, and we need to have a "0" tolerance for alcohol, so as to be used of God to bring the drug addicted to the Cross of Christ, and lead the wounded to the healing hand of Almighty God.
The local bars should be hurting for business when the Baptists come to town, and the rummy in the street should hear the glorious Gospel of Christ. It is certainly not appropriate to be staggering on the Romans Road.
1 Thess. 5:
22
Abstain from all appearance of evil.
23
And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Alcohol is an insidious evil, and ones' use of this drug supports this abomination.
A little overly dramatic, aren't we?
Mike
__________________________________________________
It gets fairly dramatic when I am trying to extricate the drunken teenager from the demolished car, at 2:30 in the morning, while hoping that he keeps breathing. It gets fairly dramatic when one encounters the 25-year-old walking down the road with blood streaming down his face, from a crushed eye socket, and he says his buddy, laying beside the wrecked dune buggy, is in worse shape than he is.
We are confronted with far too many Christians that are very cavalier in regards to sin, and through their purchases of drugs, support the proliferation of drugs. Alcohol is a drug.
[ June 07, 2002, 07:06 PM: Message edited by: Caretaker ]
Mike
__________________________________________________
It gets fairly dramatic when I am trying to extricate the drunken teenager from the demolished car, at 2:30 in the morning, while hoping that he keeps breathing. It gets fairly dramatic when one encounters the 25-year-old walking down the road with blood streaming down his face, from a crushed eye socket, and he says his buddy, laying beside the wrecked dune buggy, is in worse shape than he is.
We are confronted with far too many Christians that are very cavalier in regards to sin, and through their purchases of drugs, support the proliferation of drugs. Alcohol is a drug.
[ June 07, 2002, 07:06 PM: Message edited by: Caretaker ]
This is a nasty can of worms to open up in any forum, but none less than a religious forum.
The battle lines on a discussion such as this have long been drawn and I doubt that positions will be changed any time soon.
Having said that, let me say that I do not drink, even in moderation. I find it a total waste of good money that would be better spent on my children.
I also agree that drinking makes it difficult to witness, it's kind of hard to explain why someone is going to hell and your not when he has seen you in the local bar.
A brother in Christ,
shdwpoet
The battle lines on a discussion such as this have long been drawn and I doubt that positions will be changed any time soon.
Having said that, let me say that I do not drink, even in moderation. I find it a total waste of good money that would be better spent on my children.
I also agree that drinking makes it difficult to witness, it's kind of hard to explain why someone is going to hell and your not when he has seen you in the local bar.
A brother in Christ,
shdwpoet
Caretaker, I don't think any Christians here condone *abuse* of alcohol. The Bible is clear on the dangers of alcohol. I think we all agree that abuse of alcohol, abuse of anything, is sin. But drinking in moderation is not sin, for then even Christ sinned. The Pharisees tried to pin this on him, but it didn't stick.
Yes, alcohol is a drug. So is coffee. So is aspirin. So is sugar. Some drugs are harder to abuse than others, but it is the abuse that is the sin, not the substance.
Yes, alcohol is a drug. So is coffee. So is aspirin. So is sugar. Some drugs are harder to abuse than others, but it is the abuse that is the sin, not the substance.
Yet Jesus ate with publicans and sinners. And Pharisees jumped on him for that, too.
Not directed specifically at you, shdwpoet, but:
Rant:begin
why does drinking = going to a bar? I don't go to bars. Once in a while I will have a glass of wine with dinner, or a cooler when BBQing with friends. I have never been in a bar, I was in a liquor store only once when I deperately needed change and there was nothing else around, and I have never been drunk or partied with drunks. I do not encourage other's to drink, and rarely drink in public (I can recall only twice where I had a drink with dinner at a restaurant). Yet I know Christians who think nothing of eating a whole chocolate cake in one sitting, or drinking 10 cups of coffee a day, or speeding on their way home from work, etc. Yet for some reason, my occasional wine with dinner is an "abomination" and makes me an "idiot", while Christ and the apostles also drank wine. Sorry, but I don't get it.
Rant:end
Brian
I've been pulling drunks out of cars since I was a seventeen year old cadet in my local fire department as well as countless domestic abuse cases, fights and other alcohol related incidents (including a guy who got drunk and fell out of a tree
) so, believe me, I've seen the negative effects of alcohol.That still doesn't show that alcohol is necessarily bad. It just proves that some people have an endless supply of bad judgement.
For every person who chooses to drink irresponsibly, there are thousands of us who drink responsibly.
Mike
http://www.buddygreene.com
The temperance revivals closed down many saloons, redeemed many a drunkard from the gutter, bringing them to Christ, and restoring a new man of God to his family, and to the community.
Now we see the Christian standing in line behind the Drubkard, waiting their turn to buy their booze.
Isn't it ironic that those that justify their booze, by Paul's statement to Timothy to take a bit of wine for the stomuch, have parlayed the statement into beer with their football on Sunday, wine-coolers and cocktails with their meals. The drinking Christian has zero credibility to call upon the drunkard to repent, for they partake of the same drug, purchased over the very same counter. They are not only in the world, but are also of the world with very few degrees of separation.
Now we see the Christian standing in line behind the Drubkard, waiting their turn to buy their booze.
Isn't it ironic that those that justify their booze, by Paul's statement to Timothy to take a bit of wine for the stomuch, have parlayed the statement into beer with their football on Sunday, wine-coolers and cocktails with their meals. The drinking Christian has zero credibility to call upon the drunkard to repent, for they partake of the same drug, purchased over the very same counter. They are not only in the world, but are also of the world with very few degrees of separation.
Ernie Brazee
<img src ="/ernie.JPG">
Well, I tried to be nice but it is neccessary to take off the gloves and wade in.
Don't anyone try to justify drinking to me! I have experienced the repercussions of "social drinking," (after all that is what you are trying to justify here.) You know; we will just stop for "1" then every one buys "1", by this time the family waiting at home is getting more concerned. The family at home waiting for the knock on the door. Yeah I been there on both ends waiting and making my family wait!!
What about at home. you know, just a little drink before we eat, or when friends come over and we just have one or two, yeah sure, then after giving your friend strong drink he climbs in his four wheel demo machine and heads out to see who he can maim or kill. Don't tell me about "social drinking" it only takes two drinks to impair drivers. A good friend of mine was killed by a drunk driver. Another friend in the military died while driving drunk. In all my years I have yet to see where booze has helped anyone! If you need to have a drink to relax there is something wrong. The Bible says we can have peace with God, but nowhere does it say there is peace in a bottle of alcohol. The spirit in that bottle surely isn't the Holy Spirit.
Go ahead throw me off this board for being so outspoken, but if you do it shows where your heart is. Any one who will defend booze and criticize those against booze has a serious problem.
And lastly please, please explain to me how you glorify God by fogging up your mind with booze? What heavenly purpose is there for drinking booze? If there is no heavenly purpose, then why do you want to do it?
By the way what happened to Lot when he got drunk? It wasn't very pretty!
Ernie
[ June 07, 2002, 10:45 PM: Message edited by: Ernie Brazee ]
Don't anyone try to justify drinking to me! I have experienced the repercussions of "social drinking," (after all that is what you are trying to justify here.) You know; we will just stop for "1" then every one buys "1", by this time the family waiting at home is getting more concerned. The family at home waiting for the knock on the door. Yeah I been there on both ends waiting and making my family wait!!
What about at home. you know, just a little drink before we eat, or when friends come over and we just have one or two, yeah sure, then after giving your friend strong drink he climbs in his four wheel demo machine and heads out to see who he can maim or kill. Don't tell me about "social drinking" it only takes two drinks to impair drivers. A good friend of mine was killed by a drunk driver. Another friend in the military died while driving drunk. In all my years I have yet to see where booze has helped anyone! If you need to have a drink to relax there is something wrong. The Bible says we can have peace with God, but nowhere does it say there is peace in a bottle of alcohol. The spirit in that bottle surely isn't the Holy Spirit.
Go ahead throw me off this board for being so outspoken, but if you do it shows where your heart is. Any one who will defend booze and criticize those against booze has a serious problem.
And lastly please, please explain to me how you glorify God by fogging up your mind with booze? What heavenly purpose is there for drinking booze? If there is no heavenly purpose, then why do you want to do it?
By the way what happened to Lot when he got drunk? It wasn't very pretty!
Ernie
[ June 07, 2002, 10:45 PM: Message edited by: Ernie Brazee ]
In a home where the Father drank at dinner, the Pastor was often invited by the Mother to dine, in order she once explained to him, that her sons might see that some men are total abstainers, and follow the Pastors example and the Mother's entreaties.
Four young people were tragicly killed on a highway. Among the mangled wreckage and broken bodies was found the broken bottles of liquor. The Father in his agony and rage vowed to hunt down the vile supplier who had contributed to the death of his daughter. Arriving home he discovered that the bottles from the wreck had come from his own liquor cabinent.
22
Abstain from all appearance of evil.
23
And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
We must have a witness which will bear the scrutiny of our children, for we are Christ's representatives to our children and to all the world.
Four young people were tragicly killed on a highway. Among the mangled wreckage and broken bodies was found the broken bottles of liquor. The Father in his agony and rage vowed to hunt down the vile supplier who had contributed to the death of his daughter. Arriving home he discovered that the bottles from the wreck had come from his own liquor cabinent.
22
Abstain from all appearance of evil.
23
And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
We must have a witness which will bear the scrutiny of our children, for we are Christ's representatives to our children and to all the world.
But just because you have a problem drinking responsibly, why does it follow that everybody else does?
Doesn't sound like you're much of a friend to put your friends in that situation, Ernie.
I sure am glad that none of my friends who enjoy a drink every now and then would do that.
Not true (unless you happen to be 4 feet tall and 60 lbs). Everybody's body absorbs alcohol at a different rate. Unless you happen to be a very, very small woman with very little body fat, I can't imagine that to be true.
Can you back that up at all?
I'm very sorry about your friend. Drunk driving is wrong and should not be tolerated.
No one is suggesting that anyone should drive while impared.
But just because your friends can't exercise good judgement, why do you assume that the rest of us can't, either?
I've never seen where cornbread and buttermilk ever helped anyone, either. I've never seen where fried chicken ever helped anyone (in fact, it can be unhealthy) but it's still a staple at church functions. What's yer point?
Agreed, but what you're describing is alcoholism. Alcoholism is deadly, destroys families and can keep us from God. The problem is that not everyone who has a drink is prone to alcoholism.
Wait a second! You're the one who described yourself as not being able to control yourself in a bar and loading your friends up until they can't drive. Sounds to me like you're the one with the problem.
No one's defending "booze". All we're saying is that drinking, as long as you drink in moderation, being careful not to tempt a weaker brother and not letting alcohol become an idol, isn't necessarily condemned by scripture.
Also, simply disagreeing with someone who doesn't believe you should drink doesn't necessarily constitute "criticizing" them.
You can't. No one here's suggesting that there is. As far as I know, we've all acknowledged that drinking to excess is condemned by the Bible.
What Heavenly purpose is there in drinking tea or milk or juice or water?
No it wasn't. No one's suggesting that anyone should get drunk.
Mike
Just wanted to give a few thoughts on alcohol. It is not according to the New Testament order to use alcohol free wine in the Lord's Supper. And when I talk about the Lord's Supper I mean that occasion of remembrance of Christ's sacrifice which is enjoined upon true assemblies of Christ. What a false assembly may call the Lord's Supper is nothing but that which Paul calls offering unto idols. When a true NT assembly of Christ has communion service they use alcoholic wine and unleavened bread just as their Master Jesus commanded. E.g. when the Lutherans here in my country talk about the Lord's Supper that is nothing but offering unto idols, it is open idolatry and abomination unto God, because they worship not the living and true God, but the god of lutheranism and other Babylonianism (Rev. 18).
Christ Jesus the Lord made water into wine which had alcohol in it. The greek word is oinos, and it means wine which has gone through a fermentation process. The word trux stands for non-alcoholic wine or grapejuice, but is not found in the NT. Those who are zealous for "nil-tolerance" of alcoholic wine cannot back up this with the word of God. They may keep their conviction to themselves but they shall not come and say it is true piety to impose nil-tolerance with respect to alcoholic wine.
God in His word condemns (forbids) being drunk with wine (Eph. 5.18), and by application other alcoholic beverages. Nowhere in the NT does He expressly forbid using alcoholic wine, He condemns its misuse - drunkenness and revelry and the like. Personally I enjoy half a glass or a whole glass of white wine a few days a week. Some weeks I do not bother to go to the store which sells the wine, but sometimes I feel I want to drink some wine. The alcohol percentage usually ranges between 5,5 and 11,5 per cents. As for me I have proved the advice Paul gave to Timothy. Sometimes when my stomach is somewhat upset, e.g. if I have eaten some sweet dessert mom has made, I may have half a glass of that white wine and it settles my uneasy stomach quite fast. It does not get me a bit drunk, it just saves me from a restless stomach and I may go on with my doings without being bothered with that. Some people may want to take some medicines or pills when their stomach gets restless or over-acidic, but I am of that sort that I don't like to eat pills and medicines unless forced to, so for me I feel a sip of white wine is a healthier option, and tastier too. As for drunkenness I condemn it just as much as I condemn the charismaniacal drunkenness connected with pentecostal spirit-slaying so called.
Harald
Christ Jesus the Lord made water into wine which had alcohol in it. The greek word is oinos, and it means wine which has gone through a fermentation process. The word trux stands for non-alcoholic wine or grapejuice, but is not found in the NT. Those who are zealous for "nil-tolerance" of alcoholic wine cannot back up this with the word of God. They may keep their conviction to themselves but they shall not come and say it is true piety to impose nil-tolerance with respect to alcoholic wine.
God in His word condemns (forbids) being drunk with wine (Eph. 5.18), and by application other alcoholic beverages. Nowhere in the NT does He expressly forbid using alcoholic wine, He condemns its misuse - drunkenness and revelry and the like. Personally I enjoy half a glass or a whole glass of white wine a few days a week. Some weeks I do not bother to go to the store which sells the wine, but sometimes I feel I want to drink some wine. The alcohol percentage usually ranges between 5,5 and 11,5 per cents. As for me I have proved the advice Paul gave to Timothy. Sometimes when my stomach is somewhat upset, e.g. if I have eaten some sweet dessert mom has made, I may have half a glass of that white wine and it settles my uneasy stomach quite fast. It does not get me a bit drunk, it just saves me from a restless stomach and I may go on with my doings without being bothered with that. Some people may want to take some medicines or pills when their stomach gets restless or over-acidic, but I am of that sort that I don't like to eat pills and medicines unless forced to, so for me I feel a sip of white wine is a healthier option, and tastier too. As for drunkenness I condemn it just as much as I condemn the charismaniacal drunkenness connected with pentecostal spirit-slaying so called.
Harald