Poll concerning Creation(ism)

[HankD]

But the sun wasn't created until the fourth day. This first day was NOT a day in the way we know it. How could it be since there wasn't a sun?

God knew how long 24 hours were without the presence of the sun. He established the schema of time (the sidereal day of 24 hours) and then created and integrated the sun onto that schema.

Psalm 148

3 Praise ye him, sun and moon: praise him, all ye stars of light.
4 Praise him, ye heavens of heavens, and ye waters that be above the heavens.
5 Let them praise the name of the LORD: for he commanded, and they were created.
6 He hath also stablished them for ever and ever: he hath made a decree which shall not pass.​

Psalm 19
1 The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.
2 Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge.
3 There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard.
4 Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world.
In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun​

HankD

 

[Allan]

But the sun wasn't created until the fourth day. This first day was NOT a day in the way we know it. How could it be since there wasn't a sun?

Because a day isn't determined by the presense of the sun but that there is an 'evening' and a 'morning' due to light which are made by the earth revolutions. This is a 24 hour cycle based upon the word 'yom' in the Hebrew meaning a literal day.

 

[Allan]

God knew how long 24 hours were without the presence of the sun. He established the schema of time (the sidereal day of 24 hours) and then created and integrated the sun onto that schema.

Well said.

 

[lbaker]

Absolutely. I believe that we pretend to understand God's ways when we try to box Him in with respect to how He works in our universe. If Genesis had contained exactly how He created the world none of us would be able to understand it. Neither would have anybody else since the account was written. People talk about the sovereignty of God and then try to make Him small enough for them to understand.

I was just thinking about what a weird and wacky Universe it would be if the Genesis account was supposed to be taken literally. Just think what strange physical laws we would have to live with. It would be even worse than Quantum physics! Just for starters, the speed of light would be way off.

 

[Allan]

I was just thinking about what a weird and wacky Universe it would be if the Genesis account was supposed to be taken literally. Just think what strange physical laws we would have to live with. It would be even worse than Quantum physics! Just for starters, the speed of light would be way off.

Why is that?

The speed of light would still be a constant. Light is light (regardless of it is from a single source or multiple ones such as stars) and it will travel as fast as it was created to travel.

 

[lbaker]

Why is that?

The speed of light would still be a constant. Light is light (regardless of it is from a single source or multiple ones such as stars) and it will travel as fast as it was created to travel.

If the Genesis account is literally true then we have light arriving here in 6000 years or less from stars that are millions of light years distant. Therefore we couldn't trust our measurement of light's speed.

 

[annsni]

I was just thinking about what a weird and wacky Universe it would be if the Genesis account was supposed to be taken literally. Just think what strange physical laws we would have to live with. It would be even worse than Quantum physics! Just for starters, the speed of light would be way off.

God can't do what He said? Who created the physical laws?

 

[annsni]

If the Genesis account is literally true then we have light arriving here in 6000 years or less from stars that are millions of light years distant. Therefore we couldn't trust our measurement of light's speed.

God created a full grown Adam. I'm sure He can create a full grown universe too.

 

[KeithS]

Why is that?

The speed of light would still be a constant. Light is light (regardless of it is from a single source or multiple ones such as stars) and it will travel as fast as it was created to travel.

I'm no physicist, however I recall reading an article perhaps a few years ago where scientists were able to slow down light by passing it through various mediums.

I believe Barry Setterfield proposes a theory that the speed of light is not a constant and that at the time of creation was much faster than it is today. Thus explaining how a young universe can exist with star light traversing "millions" of light years within that time frame.

 

[lbaker]

God can't do what He said? Who created the physical laws?

The point is that the physical laws we have don't jive with a six day creation 6000 years ago.

 

[lbaker]

I'm no physicist, however I recall reading an article perhaps a few years ago where scientists were able to slow down light by passing it through various mediums.

I believe Barry Setterfield proposes a theory that the speed of light is not a constant and that at the time of creation was much faster than it is today. Thus explaining how a young universe can exist with star light traversing "millions" of light years within that time frame.

Exactly what I mean. If creation was 6000 years ago then the speed of light isn't constant and dependable.

 

[lbaker]

God created a full grown Adam. I'm sure He can create a full grown universe too.

I'm sure He could. But if that's what He did then our physical laws don't make sense.

 

[annsni]

The point is that the physical laws we have don't jive with a six day creation 6000 years ago.

I'm sure He could. But if that's what He did then our physical laws don't make sense.

And our own knowledge - as limited as it is - is greater than the Creator?

How does someone's cancer suddenly go away? Science can't explain it.

How did my friend have a baby with a placenta that could not have supported the pregnancy? Science can't explain it.

I'm going to go by God rather than science. If science doesn't agree with God, God is the higher authority. We've seen science change and I'm sure it will continue. God never changes.

 

[SBCPreacher]

I'm going to go by God rather than science. If science doesn't agree with God, God is the higher authority. We've seen science change and I'm sure it will continue. God never changes.

Agreed!

I get weary of those who say that God can't do something. According to God's Word, He chose to create in 6 days. He spoke His creation into existence. That's good enough for me! If science want to waste time trying to explain away God's creation, go ahead. Believe me, none of these men (or women) are smarter than God. None of them were there at the time. I'm sticking with what God says about it.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

Agreed!

I get weary of those who say that God can't do something. According to God's Word, He chose to create in 6 days. He spoke His creation into existence. That's good enough for me! If science want to waste time trying to explain away God's creation, go ahead. Believe me, none of these men (or women) are smarter than God. None of them were there at the time. I'm sticking with what God says about it.

I don't think days in the bible were 24 hour periods necissarily. Remember God distinguishes the day and night senario by saying "there was light and then there was darkness the 1st day" ect... Light and dark over playing each other. Now when God created the universe he created gravety (we still don't understand thins). Scientist believed that mass alone causes gravety. However, recent imagining of the universe shows "pools" of gravety before mass settled there. Also there is this thing called in flation after the big bang where matter for a time traveled faster than the speed of light. Einstine would say that was impossible. We don't have all the answers but I don't think it is what you think it is. According to physics the futher away we get from gravety time slows down. Think on that! We are still making discoveries. Jews didn't understand messiah either. When he came he blew their theology out of the water. Don't be so dogmatic! That's what the Jews were doing. It is kind of like apocalyptic literature. These things happen and will happen but not necissarily the way we've come to believe. Moses wasn't there at the begining and relied on Oral tradition. So it may be like the apocalyptic literature. Full of things not understandable by transmition but passed on none the less. Remember the garden of Eden. Northern Plateau with mountains on three sides a river running through it and falling (water fall?) below the plateau? Could have been exactly like that but it could be symbolic explaining something to the writers and us about it. Apocalyptic literature always uses these kinds of imagry. Six days yes but not necissarily 24 hour days. Light then dark yes.

 

[SBCPreacher]

I don't think days in the bible were 24 hour periods necissarily. Remember God distinguishes the day and night senario by saying "there was light and then there was darkness the 1st day" ect... Light and dark over playing each other. Now when God created the universe he created gravety (we still don't understand thins). Scientist believed that mass alone causes gravety. However, recent imagining of the universe shows "pools" of gravety before mass settled there. Also there is this thing called in flation after the big bang where matter for a time traveled faster than the speed of light. Einstine would say that was impossible. We don't have all the answers but I don't think it is what you think it is. According to physics the futher away we get from gravety time slows down. Think on that! We are still making discoveries. Jews didn't understand messiah either. When he came he blew their theology out of the water. Don't be so dogmatic! That's what the Jews were doing. It is kind of like apocalyptic literature. These things happen and will happen but not necissarily the way we've come to believe. Moses wasn't there at the begining and relied on Oral tradition. So it may be like the apocalyptic literature. Full of things not understandable by transmition but passed on none the less. Remember the garden of Eden. Northern Plateau with mountains on three sides a river running through it and falling (water fall?) below the plateau? Could have been exactly like that but it could be symbolic explaining something to the writers and us about it. Apocalyptic literature always uses these kinds of imagry. Six days yes but not necissarily 24 hour days. Light then dark yes.

It doesn't matter so much what you or I think. What matters is what does the Bible say. To me, that's whats most important. If what science says is more important to you, then have at it.

You don't have to believe in 6 literal 24 hour days. I do. And the fact that you don't doesn't affect what I believe in the least. Again, I believe God said what He meant and meant what he said.

I would rather stand before God, believing His Word to be true (even concerning creation) and hear Him say something like, "Well, I didn't mean for you to take it literally" than not believe it's true and hear Him say something like, "I told you exactly what I meant. Why did you refuse to believe me?"

Lastly, if God is incapable to "do" creation in 6 24 hour days, then what else can He not do?

 

[Revmitchell]

I don't think days in the bible were 24 hour periods necissarily. Remember God distinguishes the day and night senario by saying "there was light and then there was darkness the 1st day" ect... Light and dark over playing each other. Now when God created the universe he created gravety (we still don't understand thins). Scientist believed that mass alone causes gravety. However, recent imagining of the universe shows "pools" of gravety before mass settled there. Also there is this thing called in flation after the big bang where matter for a time traveled faster than the speed of light. Einstine would say that was impossible. We don't have all the answers but I don't think it is what you think it is. According to physics the futher away we get from gravety time slows down. Think on that! We are still making discoveries. Jews didn't understand messiah either. When he came he blew their theology out of the water. Don't be so dogmatic! That's what the Jews were doing. It is kind of like apocalyptic literature. These things happen and will happen but not necissarily the way we've come to believe. Moses wasn't there at the begining and relied on Oral tradition. So it may be like the apocalyptic literature. Full of things not understandable by transmition but passed on none the less. Remember the garden of Eden. Northern Plateau with mountains on three sides a river running through it and falling (water fall?) below the plateau? Could have been exactly like that but it could be symbolic explaining something to the writers and us about it. Apocalyptic literature always uses these kinds of imagry. Six days yes but not necissarily 24 hour days. Light then dark yes.

Spell check is a wonderful thing. We all misspell but 14 is a little high.

 

[Allan]

If the Genesis account is literally true then we have light arriving here in 6000 years or less from stars that are millions of light years distant. Therefore we couldn't trust our measurement of light's speed.

Not true.

What we can't trust is judging the age of the earth based upon speed of light in conjunction with the distance from us to other stars.

We can most definately postulate how long it would take to get from us to them or vise-versa using the speed of light but not the age of the earth.

 

[HankD]

I was just thinking about what a weird and wacky Universe it would be if the Genesis account was supposed to be taken literally. Just think what strange physical laws we would have to live with. It would be even worse than Quantum physics! Just for starters, the speed of light would be way off.

But bro Baker, even the Big Bang proponents say something very similar. That the 21st century laws of physics do not apply to the creative force(s) which came out of the BB "in the beginning".

To be fair shouldn't young earth people be able to say similar things about the six days "in the beginning"?


HankD

 

[JustChristian]

I have a question to throw out to the group. Should all of the Bible be interpreted literally? That is should Genesis be interpreted the same way as the four Gospels? What about Revelation or Psalms? Should the parables (e.g. the Sower, the Prodigal Son, the Virgins with the Lamps, etc.) be explained in exactly the same way as the Sermon on the Mount? I believe that there are different types of writings in the Bible. My idea at this point is that Revelation is largely symbolic. Jesus said that the parables required explanation (interpretation) and they were meant to be understood by His followers but not by others.

Other beliefs?