POLL For Calvinists re: Salvation of Non Calvinists

Who really cares what anyone on these boards say???

Is ILL, Wes Outwest, rc, dianetavegia, myself, or Barnabas going to be standing beside us at the BEMA Judgement Seat of Christ when the time calls to give an account of our individual stewardship????

 

Dave said:

True.

Yet, to believe in Christ, is theology, Christ being God. Christology and Soteriology are but parts of Theology.

So, now, if one's theology is not a yardstick for salvation, and salvation is OF the Lord, who elected a people unto salvation for Himself and for His glory, writing their names down in the Lamb's book of life from before the foundation of the world, does it follow that all the elect will be believers here in time ?

 

True.

Yet, to believe in Christ, is theology, Christ being God. Christology and Soteriology are but parts of Theology.

So, now, if one's theology is not a yardstick for salvation, and salvation is OF the Lord, who elected a people unto salvation for Himself and for His glory, writing their names down in the Lamb's book of life from before the foundation of the world, does it follow that all the elect will be believers here in time ? </font>[/QUOTE]How do you know whose name is written in the book of life? How do you know that God did not "elect" the whole of mankind for salvation? But that only those who actually believe in him are saved?

 

Wes said:

I don't know whose names were written down in the Book of Life. I wasn't there. Only God was there. Which is why I will be cautious in judging who are God's people and who are not, based on their soteriology or theology or creed.
[/quote]

And then, Wes said:

Because of the following Scriptures:

And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. (Rev.13:8)

The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is. (Rev.17:8)

And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. (Rev. 20:12)

The kicker that shows not all mankind's names have been written in the Lamb's Book of Life:

And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
(Rev.20:15)


And Wes' last question was:

I didn't even say those who actually believed in him are saved.

The devils believe, and tremble. Remember that Scripture ? Or are devils saved.

 

PinoyBaptist,

Because of the following Scriptures:

And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. (Rev.13:8)</font>[/QUOTE]Those who are not found in the book of life will indeed worship THE BEAST! Those identified as NOT BEING FOUND in the book of life, may well be those whose names were blotted from the book of life.

Even believers in God could be deceived into thinking this beast is God and fall in worship of it, if they do not know the truth concerning the great deception.

You will note that all stand before God and give accounting of their works That is one judgment that All men face. now to your "kicker"

Yes, the second judgment, the one that believers in the Christ do not face (John 3:18) because they have passed FROM DEATH into Life Everlasting because THEIR NAMES ARE FOUND IN THE BOOK OF LIFE. They have not been blotted from the book of life in the manner that the unbeliever has been.

I didn't even say those who actually believed in him are saved.

The devils believe, and tremble. Remember that Scripture ? Or are devils saved.</font>[/QUOTE]You say this because you do not understand the difference between believing by actual experience, and the devils had actual experience with Jesus before the foundation of the world. They know who he is and the power that he has, but they do not have faith in Him. They previously rebelled against him, even to usurp His throne, and dominate the spirit realm. That is why they are called devils. Devils cannot be saved, their rebellion is complete!

I hope you will consider that the book of life contains the names of all who will live the natural life, and that only those who complete this natural life with faith in God, will be found in the book of life at the judgment. Doing so could so transform your belief that you will never again be susceptible to false doctrine.

 

When our Administrator Barnabas said almost the exact same thing you didn't attack him for these words. Why attack Mike?

http://www.baptistboard.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi/topic/35/1378.html? </font>[/QUOTE]Now that Dianes chosen to stick up for Mike (who is Arminian ) I hope that she will now make it her joy to stick up for the multitudes of other inconsistencies from the Arminian camp, aimed at the calvinists too....unless of course siding with arminians and nitpicking at the calvinists is a new hobby horse

After reading many of the latest threads, I can see one definite consistency though.
I now know how Mel Gibsons character must have felt in *braveheart* with all those loyal people behind him Oh how we wish we were so brave too heh

 

It is a fact that we have all been influenced by others and the reason why we use labels. Everyone of us who are Evangelical Christians, Protestants, Baptists have been influenced by those who have taught us whether in Sunday School, Bible College, Seminary.

We have all been directly or indirectly influenced by the theology of the Nicene Church Fathers (Even if you haven't heard of them) for their Biblical interpretations of Christology and the Trinity are in every thing from Sunday School books to Systematic theologys. It is never just Me, my Bible and Jesus. Calvin and Arminius thoughts are found in all Christian circles because these teachings have been passed down through the centuries. Anabaptist ideas influenced the early Baptists. Very few of our thoughts come strictly from the Bible but we learned them from teachers, be it the Youth Pastor who taught us in Youth group or our Pastor, or reading a Rick Warren book or be it the Theology of Luther, Calvin or even Arminius. To say we learned something from the Bible with no help of any teacher is generally not true.

None of us have discerned and interpreted the Sacred Words by ourselves without any other influence. We learn the Word from Teachers in our local Churches and those through the History of the Church.

Scripture tells us,

2 Thes. 2:15
Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle. (KJV)

 

Wes:

Given what you say in answer to my post, how then can you say that all mankind are saved ?
How then can you say that Christ's blood atoned for the sins of all mankind ?
Isn't that what you said ?
There are no longer souls who are condemned to death ?
Spiritual death no longer is, because Christ died for all of mankind ?
Then, why can't all mankind be empowered to live their natural lives in faith, and therefore be completely saved.
Provide answers with Scriptures .

 

Rich UK,

Do you deny Diane the right to speak her own convictions? You accuse those of us who do not align with either Arminius' or Calvin's OPINIONS falsely. However you would do well to stick with the doctrines and not attack the people.

If you are not, then you sin! We are commanded to boldly speak the truth of the scriptures and to use them for edification and correction of false teachings.

 

I added the number to your the quote.

1. I never have said that all mankind are saved! I don't believe it and I have never said it! (no scripture needed here, I never said what you say I did)

2. Because the atonement was for sin, ALL the sin of the World. Jesus' Atonement was not for specific sins or specific sinners.

3. Never said all mankind are saved; have said that atonement is for ALL the sins of the world.

4. Because all sins are atoned,(Heb 7:27) save for blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, man does not face death because of sin! Now isn't that logical?

and

5. The human spirit that believes in God never faces the second death.(John 3:14-18) Christ did not die for all mankind, He died to set mankind free from the penalty of death for sinning. Thus we are saved through our faith in God!

6. Because man was, in the creation, given free will! That is, the will to choose for himself among all the possibilities given to man by God.

</font>[/QUOTE]Now PinoyBaptist, it is your turn, Provide your own ability to think things through!

 

Wes:

If sin has been atoned for, then that sin has been forgiven. If all sins have been atoned for, then all sins have been forgiven. If the sins of the whole world has been atoned for, then the sins of all mankind has been forgiven, because mountains have no sins, rivers have no sins, lakes have no sins, birds have no sins, germs have no sins, etc., etc., etc., only mankind sinned.

Now, if sins of mankind in the whole wide world have been atoned for, therefore forgiven, then all mankind are saved, redeemed, washed in the blood of Christ.

You cannot have one's sins atoned for, but not forgiven. Or atoned for and forgiven, but one is not redeemed.

Make up your mind.

 

Hey, how did I get into this thread?

This is my first post in this thread.

Please don't attack me as I don't know ANYTHING about Calvinism or Arminianism. Therefore, I can't debate or take sides.

The only person's salvation I can be sure of is mine and I certainly will not even venture to guess about anyone else's.

So please count me as invisible and I will read on with interest.

 

Diane why are you are bringing this in from another thread?


IMO, I do not believe it is fair to do so. I was not following this thread and did not know that I had been mentioned until someone told me.

How can one participate when things are copied from other threads without their knowledge?

 

Why do you always misconstrue the truth? Atonement for sin does not remove the guilt of sin from the sinner! It pays the penalty of the sin. If you sin, you still own the sin, it has not been forgiven until you confess it and ask for forgiveness.

If you sin you are guilty of sin until you confess it. What Jesus did for you is he paid the penalty for your sin, so that you do not have to pay it, and you can enjoy eternal life through your faith in him.

Atonement does not save you! It cannot!
Atonement does not forgive what you haven't confessed! It only pays the penalty so you don't have to die for your sins.

Sin Cannot condemn you, it's penalty has been paid by Jesus' atonement.

There is only one way to be saved and that is confession of Faith in Jesus, the ONLY name under heaven whereby we must be saved.

Stop convoluting the truth!

 

No of course I don't. You Wes, as normal, are biased towards the armnian side and pretend you don't align with arminus teachings. You're an arminian!! Whats so hard to accept about that! I'm sure Diane can stick up for herself. She doesn't need *robots* to do the job for her ...oh, sorry, was her illustration supposed to reflect the calvinist position?? heh

Wes what are you slobbering on about. Speaking boldly and crawling are two different things. I suggest you read some of the posts before making ignorant replies in the defense of others.