Deleted -- reply wasn't really worth the effort.
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Poll: Good Reviews For Obama Speech
- Thread starter KenH
- Start date
Hmm... I didn't hear that at all. And I listened to the speech (in full and in context) twice. I thought he had a good handle on the issues between black and white. For what it's worth, I don't think he blamed anyone but Wright for his negative speech.webdog said:
Nope. He pointed out that both blacks and whites have a long history of "racial" bigotry. There was nothing in his speech about whites "shouldering the guilt of all racism." If he had actually given the typical "white people caused all of this" speech, I would have tuned him out immediately.
That's your loss.
Some of you aren't going to like this:
There are several interracial and inter cultural marriages in my family - including my own - and several were consummated at a time that such were openly rejected by our society, best friends, and most family members. But, never the less, there are several more now in our extended family. These involve all three main races and a half dozen nationalities. We are a very mixed bunch - Heinz 57 as my oldest daughter says - and make a nice rainbow of human skin hues. It's a challenge for the photographers to get the lighting correct!
You have to really be in love - love based upon Christ's love - to overcome some of the challenges brought about by such choices. This is why many parents don't want to see their children get into interracial or inter cultural marriages. I don't fault them for that! They're looking out for their children. They know it won't be easy for them and it's hard enough for birds of the same feather to stay together in this world. But, true love can prevail and, if it is based on Christ's love, it will. That's also the secret to solid relationships of like race and culture is it not?
I've found that I like people mostly - mostly because I'm not pure in heart or mind - based upon how they act or react towards me. I think that's how most judge me. Never the less, we all have expectations of others based on what we've previously experienced. I'm no exception to that rule! Therefore, we have our comfort zones and discomfort zones and they probably do initially include factors of race and national origin or, if not those factors, some others that put people into one kind of box or another. Government isn't going to change that! These zones are based upon our past experiences - our reality - and they are not without solid basis. Culture is associated with race. Conduct is associated with race. Expectations of relationships are associated with race. This isn't bigotry or hatred - it's human nature to make our judgments of others based upon the sum of our experience and observations and, thereby, to associate origin or appearance with it. What we see and hear in the news defines a lot of what we think about other people whether it be by race, by nationality, or by the cause they support. It's part of survival instincts and there's often a real good reason behind it. Our prejudices are often just as likely to be true as they are to be false! So, therefore, prejudice is not all bad!
According to the Bible all men descend from Adam and then from Noah. There's no evidence to suggest the various races originated from different sources. We are not different kinds of animals. God made man. The first man was a man. We don't know what race he resembled and it does not matter. The DNA that defines us a human is essentially the same for all people and the Bible makes it clear we're all of the same blood. The differences in DNA between races are very slight and mean nothing to the favor or disfavor God gives one verses the other.
In the end I believe no favor and no disfavor should be given or taken from any citizen of our nation because of their race. The key here for me is true equality - not some special treatment of one over the other by virtue of something not earned. The problem I have with what I see regarding many black people has to do with the idea that white people must eternally be guilt ridden over slavery and that they owe black people restitution or special recognition. I don't accept that! This contradicts equal treatment under the law. We see this manifested regularly in a wide assortment of federal government programs and we're told we need even more - lots more - to "correct" the sin of slavery. I don't accept that either! We see it in our employer's "diversity" progams and it irritates us yet we seem powerless to stop it. The "racist" label can and will be slapped upon anyone who dares speak up. At work challenging the need or the fairness of such programs can get you fired. Yet, on the other hand, it can get you employed even if you should be fired! This is not equality!
What's needed is for all people to accept responsibility for their own selves and live within the fruits of their own labor.
The biggest problem among black people in America is cultural. Black mothers and fathers must change this culture in their own homes. They must raise their children together according to God's plan for the family. They must end the trend that sends so many young black men - even boys - into a life of crime. They must end the trend that sends so many young back women - even girls - into a life of single parenthood. The statistics - not racial bias - tell the story the way it really is. We need to stop looking for excuses of why it's this way and get busy fixing the problem at its root.
These problems aren't limited to blacks and are not because blacks are black! The problems could or do exist in any group. Groups that wallow in the sorrows of their past are doomed to stay in the past. Think about some other groups that fit that situation! Think about some they headed that why today!
The answers to these problems do not reside in government. Government can't even manage itself much less the family nor should it even try! How many times and how many ways must we learn this lesson? How many politicians have promised to take care of the problems - jobs, education, finances, health, etc. - and yet every election they drag out the same promises, blame the previous ones for not doing anything, and sell new voters on the hope of something for nothing. They do not have the answers! The best thing would be for them to shut up and let us all keep more of our own money!
The answer rests in Christ - just as it does for us all in all problems - and herein is the problem. So many black churches are caught up in black liberation theology - a black man-centered gospel - verses a Christ-centered gospel. That's why preachers like Wright are so destructive to their own people. Listen to the preaching and you hear an endless tale of victimization at the hands of "rich white men" and a call to liberate the oppressed. Plenty of white churches are caught up in man-centered theology as well and the end of that is no good either. There should be no such thing as a black gospel or white gospel. Christ's gospel is for all men. Christ liberates us from sin but we must accept that we are sinners and be lead by Him in all that we do. Wright's church needs a solid Christ-centered pastor and minster and so does Obama!
Christ may or may not choose to liberate us from our earthly oppression if we face with such. The irony is that black Americans today are not in any way oppressed! They do not live in slavery and haven't for several generations. They have liberty just as any citizen does. They just need to use it and stop looking to the government - or more correctly opportunists such as run rampant among their leadership - to give them something. They need to liberate themselves from these old time leaders and start acting for their own best interests.
That's how I see it - like it or not - and I say it without any "white" guilt whatsoever!
There are several interracial and inter cultural marriages in my family - including my own - and several were consummated at a time that such were openly rejected by our society, best friends, and most family members. But, never the less, there are several more now in our extended family. These involve all three main races and a half dozen nationalities. We are a very mixed bunch - Heinz 57 as my oldest daughter says - and make a nice rainbow of human skin hues. It's a challenge for the photographers to get the lighting correct!
You have to really be in love - love based upon Christ's love - to overcome some of the challenges brought about by such choices. This is why many parents don't want to see their children get into interracial or inter cultural marriages. I don't fault them for that! They're looking out for their children. They know it won't be easy for them and it's hard enough for birds of the same feather to stay together in this world. But, true love can prevail and, if it is based on Christ's love, it will. That's also the secret to solid relationships of like race and culture is it not?
I've found that I like people mostly - mostly because I'm not pure in heart or mind - based upon how they act or react towards me. I think that's how most judge me. Never the less, we all have expectations of others based on what we've previously experienced. I'm no exception to that rule! Therefore, we have our comfort zones and discomfort zones and they probably do initially include factors of race and national origin or, if not those factors, some others that put people into one kind of box or another. Government isn't going to change that! These zones are based upon our past experiences - our reality - and they are not without solid basis. Culture is associated with race. Conduct is associated with race. Expectations of relationships are associated with race. This isn't bigotry or hatred - it's human nature to make our judgments of others based upon the sum of our experience and observations and, thereby, to associate origin or appearance with it. What we see and hear in the news defines a lot of what we think about other people whether it be by race, by nationality, or by the cause they support. It's part of survival instincts and there's often a real good reason behind it. Our prejudices are often just as likely to be true as they are to be false! So, therefore, prejudice is not all bad!
According to the Bible all men descend from Adam and then from Noah. There's no evidence to suggest the various races originated from different sources. We are not different kinds of animals. God made man. The first man was a man. We don't know what race he resembled and it does not matter. The DNA that defines us a human is essentially the same for all people and the Bible makes it clear we're all of the same blood. The differences in DNA between races are very slight and mean nothing to the favor or disfavor God gives one verses the other.
In the end I believe no favor and no disfavor should be given or taken from any citizen of our nation because of their race. The key here for me is true equality - not some special treatment of one over the other by virtue of something not earned. The problem I have with what I see regarding many black people has to do with the idea that white people must eternally be guilt ridden over slavery and that they owe black people restitution or special recognition. I don't accept that! This contradicts equal treatment under the law. We see this manifested regularly in a wide assortment of federal government programs and we're told we need even more - lots more - to "correct" the sin of slavery. I don't accept that either! We see it in our employer's "diversity" progams and it irritates us yet we seem powerless to stop it. The "racist" label can and will be slapped upon anyone who dares speak up. At work challenging the need or the fairness of such programs can get you fired. Yet, on the other hand, it can get you employed even if you should be fired! This is not equality!
What's needed is for all people to accept responsibility for their own selves and live within the fruits of their own labor.
The biggest problem among black people in America is cultural. Black mothers and fathers must change this culture in their own homes. They must raise their children together according to God's plan for the family. They must end the trend that sends so many young black men - even boys - into a life of crime. They must end the trend that sends so many young back women - even girls - into a life of single parenthood. The statistics - not racial bias - tell the story the way it really is. We need to stop looking for excuses of why it's this way and get busy fixing the problem at its root.
These problems aren't limited to blacks and are not because blacks are black! The problems could or do exist in any group. Groups that wallow in the sorrows of their past are doomed to stay in the past. Think about some other groups that fit that situation! Think about some they headed that why today!
The answers to these problems do not reside in government. Government can't even manage itself much less the family nor should it even try! How many times and how many ways must we learn this lesson? How many politicians have promised to take care of the problems - jobs, education, finances, health, etc. - and yet every election they drag out the same promises, blame the previous ones for not doing anything, and sell new voters on the hope of something for nothing. They do not have the answers! The best thing would be for them to shut up and let us all keep more of our own money!
The answer rests in Christ - just as it does for us all in all problems - and herein is the problem. So many black churches are caught up in black liberation theology - a black man-centered gospel - verses a Christ-centered gospel. That's why preachers like Wright are so destructive to their own people. Listen to the preaching and you hear an endless tale of victimization at the hands of "rich white men" and a call to liberate the oppressed. Plenty of white churches are caught up in man-centered theology as well and the end of that is no good either. There should be no such thing as a black gospel or white gospel. Christ's gospel is for all men. Christ liberates us from sin but we must accept that we are sinners and be lead by Him in all that we do. Wright's church needs a solid Christ-centered pastor and minster and so does Obama!
Christ may or may not choose to liberate us from our earthly oppression if we face with such. The irony is that black Americans today are not in any way oppressed! They do not live in slavery and haven't for several generations. They have liberty just as any citizen does. They just need to use it and stop looking to the government - or more correctly opportunists such as run rampant among their leadership - to give them something. They need to liberate themselves from these old time leaders and start acting for their own best interests.
That's how I see it - like it or not - and I say it without any "white" guilt whatsoever!
Last edited by a moderator:
Dragoon, great essay, and to the point.
BUT, get ready for the onslaught of the PC's accusations of "RACIST" to come like a thundering stampede of buffalo -- proven, of course, by your very words of wisdom!
BUT, get ready for the onslaught of the PC's accusations of "RACIST" to come like a thundering stampede of buffalo -- proven, of course, by your very words of wisdom!
No problem with me either.
I don't know why you would suggest such a thing. I am a white 44 year old male Christian who feels absolutely zero prejudice against any other just because of skin color. I don't like saying "other race" because the scriptures teach us that we are all one race, the human race.
God Bless! :thumbs:
Magnetic Poles
New Member
Steave.r, once in a while we are in agreement. This is one such timesteaver said: