Poll on Missions

I don't find it wrong at all to start new churches, and that is what evangelism is, in fact. Did I commit a major typo? And I would agree that foreign evangelism is a good thing as you outlined above. It is missions that I have a problem with! And don't leave Jonathan Edwards off of the list of evangelists, either. There was quite an evangelistic streak in most of Calvinism throughout the 17th and 18th centuries, at least.

 

Ah, the light shone in ! Just as we've been saying, similarly, from the start, we got nothing against mission-aries. It's the stated purpose of missions that we do not agree with, which is to get people saved (in the eternal sense) because this already has been done by Christ, and the procedurals in most, not all, of those churches that engage in missions which involves mission boards and the likes.

For my part, I know that there are non PB churches who do send out missionaries and support them solely thru the local church thru the pastor although the stated purpose, to get souls saved, is still the same.

 

It seems that you know very little about mission. If it so easy to get a visa into other nations where the need for the preaching of the gospel is great then why don't you try it. India no longer accepts missionaries into their nation. That is 20% of the world's population right there! Try going to a Muslim nation and putting on your application: "purpose for going: 'Missionary'" And then see how far you get with getting that visa. Most Islamic nations are not to friendly to having missionaries coming into their nation. Muslims make up another 20% of the world's population? China is closed to missions. That is another 20% of the world's population. So just where have you been? And for what purpose?

"Go ye into ALL the world and preach the GOSPEL to every creature.

This is your opinion that goes directly contrary to Scripture. Can you support it with Scripture? If so, please do. The Bible is our final authority here.
Are mission boards a waste of funds and energy? How would you know? Or are you just spouting off someone else's opinion? How much research have you actually done on this topic?

And since when is the gospel a mandate of helping the poor rather than preaching the cross of Christ? Are you sure that you are a Baptist? I am not. The gospel you describe is a "social gospel," which is heresy.

What is the purpose of a mission board?
1. To funnel the funds for the missionary over to him. Would you know how to get funds to a person in a third world nation? Write them a check? Do you know that many third world nations do not accept checks or money orders. There is no way to send money to them unless you have all their banking information, and can wire the money straight to their bank. What missionary in his right mind what want to make such information so public for anyone to have access to it?
2. What makes you think that mission boards are a huge waste of funds? Do you have documentation? Can you provide it? The mission board that I am with is run by volunteer pastors, who send 100% of what comes in to the missionary. It simply acts as a clearing house for the missionary. The board itself has no funds. How can it therefore be a waste of money? In fact it is a savings for the missionary.
I can go on and on. But those two reasons alone should suffice. It appears to me you know little about missions.

So what is it that a church does? You tell me. What does your church do?
Our church aims to fulfill the Great Commission. It sends out missionaries. It evangelizes. It wins the lost (or at the very least witnesses in order that God may bring the lost to Himself). What does your church do? Our church realizes that as soon as you leave the door of the church building you are entering into a mission field. The harvest is ripe, but the laborers are few.
How can "missions" be the main point of being a Christian? Again, you don't have any understanding of missions. Missions isn't about being a Christian. It is getting the gospel out so that others may have the opportunity to become Christians. The Great Commission was given to disciples not the lost.

Who here has any support for what you just described? Is there anyone here who has posted that supports such a program. I don't. Just because you may have run across some bad apples doesn't mean that missions programs in general are run that way. Again, I believe you have a very poor concept of Biblical missions. Perhaps you are not really a Baptist, but rather come from a liberal church where such programs exist. Is this really the truth? I think you should be honest and tell us.
Missions (or evangelism) is not about badgering people.
It is not about intense psychological tactics.
It is not about tricking people into "getting them saved."
I don't see any support either in such things, and I doubt that there are any that have posted here that agree with the above either, especially those that are inolved in missions.

 

Just recently, our pastor, a mission board member, brought before the church for a few thousand to be given towards paying off the debt of the mission board facilities, right out of the mission funds set aside to support missionaries.

Do I agree with that? No. Monies should come through other channels than money already designated to missionaries, not that money to go to mission boards.

Did i vote against it in the business meeting? No, i know just how nasty things can get in situations like that. i would no doubt been labeled a dissenter.

It's not my part to straighten out the pastor with him behind the Sacred Desk, but i do know the Lord will work on him since this is so wrong.

 

O my, when we decide for God about whosoevers.

 

Well, I have been gone for a few days, and I must say- reading this thread has been 'edumacational'.

 

I find it interesting that more people believe in the Great Commission than believe in world wide missions.

JoJ's study on the Great Commission really helped me and in the light of that I cannot see how the two items above can be considered as different.

 

I found this interesting as well.

I wonder if all these folks, myself included, are all either Primitive Baptist or Old Regular Baptist, or if there are a few other groups represented there as well.

I kinda wish this poll had been public so we'd know who voted for what. Most folks vote and never say in the thread what they voted for.

James

btw, I got to thinking. Maybe the reason I don't like missions is because I hate sushi.:laugh:

 

I believe SOME missions boards are unbiblical. I won't name any names, but there are some biggies out there, IFB boards, that I would not serve with for any reason. I would and do cooperate with their missionaries- mind you, I have nothing against THEM- but the policies of the board itself are in my opinion and by conviction, unscriptural.

Insofar as any 'missions board' usurps the authority of any NT church over the missionaries that they send out, it is unbiblical.

When any 'missions board' designates the field locations, the methods of evangelism, or the results expected of the missionary, it is unbiblical.

I forgot to add- I have no love for 'field councils'.

 

I think perhaps the definition of "missions" I have in the back of my mind is something like "institutionalized evangelism" no matter where it happens.

Yes, I would be offended as well, but I wouldn't bawl you out. Must've caught him on a bad day. I hope you don't go about asking random people if they are saved!

Because that is what missions and Sunday schools are... a methodology. No one has complained about the content of your preaching. We have never heard you preach. I SUSPECT I would have some differences with your doctrines, but that is not what this is about.

Well, there ya go, then. I should start collecting these little factoids for future discussions. How counterproductive has missionism been, given the illustrations you have yourself provided? We have a number of countries who at one time allowed missions, and now will not, based on past experience. And according to John of Japan things are getting worse. Now you are agreeing with me that the gospel would stand a better chance if it were not for missions. If we were over there helping people instead of trying to save them eternally, we likely would be welcomed instead of thrown out the country. You know when countries allow missionaries in it is because of hopes and assurances that they are going to do constructive good, don't you? When these hopes are not realized, but instead families are torn apart and societies are damaged, that's when missions become undesirable to the host countries. Was it on this board someone was telling the story of how a polygamous man wishing to join the church was forced to divorce all but one of his wives, who then were forced to become prostitutes or starve? And we all know God loves divorce, right? So maybe some self-examination on the issues of missions is in order, and whether we are truly doing what God would have us do. The answer of any of you might be "yes" and might be justifiable. But if you are doing cultural arm-twisting in the course of trying to secure someone's salvation, then the country you are in may be the next to ban missionaries.

Evidently we have a different interpretation of scripture. To me it is perfectly plain that missions are not in accordance with scripture. First take a hint from the fact that the word "mission" does not appear once in the Bible. That ought to raise some suspicion that we are inventing a concept that is extra-scriptural. The matter of waste of resources stems from the fact that when someone posted an article on tithing which said that the check written to the church should be the biggest check written each month, and I said "what on earth would we do with all that money" the main answer was "missions." Is that not true of your church?

Here is a further analogy. If a church baptized people by means of squirting water over them in a car wash, I would say it was unscriptural. You would say that the Bible clearly enjoins baptism, etc., just like you are doing now. I would, just as I am now, be trying to point out to you that the Bible does not endorse carwashes as a means of baptism.

And once again my baptist-ness is being questioned. Incredible. Do you actually think that all baptists believe the same ... about ANYTHING? Here's SOME of the scripture you were asking for; there is a lot of it in there, isn't there?

Luke 10:25-37 And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou? And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself. And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live. But he, willing to justify himself, said unto Jesus, And who is my neighbour? And Jesus answering said, A certain man went down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell among thieves, which stripped him of his raiment, and wounded him, and departed, leaving him half dead. And by chance there came down a certain priest that way: and when he saw him, he passed by on the other side. And likewise a Levite, when he was at the place, came and looked on him, and passed by on the other side. But a certain Samaritan, as he journeyed, came where he was: and when he saw him, he had compassion on him, And went to him, and bound up his wounds, pouring in oil and wine, and set him on his own beast, and brought him to an inn, and took care of him. And on the morrow when he departed, he took out two pence, and gave them to the host, and said unto him, Take care of him; and whatsoever thou spendest more, when I come again, I will repay thee. Which now of these three, thinkest thou, was neighbour unto him that fell among the thieves? And he said, He that shewed mercy on him. Then said Jesus unto him, Go, and do thou likewise.

Matthew 25:31-46 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.​

I think that viewing the whole world as one's personal mission field is misguided. All my church does is meet together to hear the gospel preached, sing and worship God, and have fellowship with one another. If someone new comes in the door, they will hear gospel preaching.