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Poll on Supporting a New Church Plant

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mandym

New Member
If you do not allow it in your church why would you support another church that does it. That would be inconsistent at best and hypocritical at worst.
 
M

Mexdeaf

New Member
Many good Baptist churches in Europe use the real thing. I don't have a problem with it as long as they don't drink the whole bottle at one sitting.
 
M

Mexdeaf

New Member
mandym said:
If you do not allow it in your church why would you support another church that does it. That would be inconsistent at best and hypocritical at worst.
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Why would it be either? I support missionaries that are IFB from our SBC church- is that hypocritical or inconsistent?
 
agedman

agedman

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Dr. Bob said:
Not my situation. My church uses wine only. We firmly believe that the elements are SPECIAL and not just "happen to be what's at hand" when Jesus instituted the Lord's Supper.

If it could be just the common "at hand" items, wonder bread & chocolate milk or pizza & pepsi would be appropriate today.

Unleavened (fermented) wine was ALL that was available during the feast of unleavened bread 8-day period. They could NOT even have a bottle of leavened juice in the house. Stoning offense!!

Yet some Baptists of the modern type (last one hundred years) say cannot use real wine. For 1900 years Christians were terrible sinners using wine at communion until just the recent century. We have been duped. Talk about the need for "someone" to CHANGE - maybe those with the new-fangled abstinence standeeeerd made by man.

We are not self-supporting but we are autonomous. If another church says we are wrong doctrinally, that is there [misguided] opinion. I would not support a church that is, say, arminian/pelagian or kjvonly. But this is ludicrous.
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Anyone familiar with distilled drink knows that YEAST is the active agent to bring fermentation to the wine.

"Fermented wine" is NOT "unleavened" (yeast free) as has been supposed.

If one wants "unleavened" wine, then the wine that has no yeast added is that wine which is not "fermented;" it contains all the natural sugars and only yeast that occurs naturally within the grape development. Just as the "unleavened" bread contains whole flour and that has trace natural occurring yeast.

All modern "fermented" wine uses cultured yeast products that are added and blended. Just as any schooled chef knows that yeast is added to cause breads to rise but that all whole wheat flour contains a form of natural yeast - just not enough to cause the bread to rise.

More to the point, I personally would not support this assembly.

If I were the pastor of a near assembly in the same state or in the same association, I might consider bringing up the planting needs to my assembly and considering some type of "love offering" in which believers may contribute as impressed by the Holy Spirit.

Teaching the appropriate perspective on intoxicants is not a "ludicrous" topic. Those who teach abstinence and the appropriate doctor prescribed use of intoxicants were not just in this last 100 years.

Paul would not have instructed Timothy if drinking wine were "the new-fangled abstinence standeeeerd made by man."
 
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M

mandym

New Member
SaggyWoman said:
Drinking wine for Communion is immoral? How so?
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I am not arguing that. What I am saying is that if a church finds any alcohol consumption immoral and that is the doctrine they teahc and hold to then why would they support a church plant that uses alcohol under any circumstance. That would be inconsistent at best and hypocritical at worst.
 
C

Chad Whiteley

Member
Our communion wine is made from just grapes (nothing added and nothing taken away), as many wines are. You post shows that you have limited understanding of enology.

That is all.

agedman said:
Anyone familiar with distilled drink knows that YEAST is the active agent to bring fermentation to the wine.

"Fermented wine" is NOT "unleavened" (yeast free) as has been supposed.

If one wants "unleavened" wine, then the wine that has no yeast added is that wine which is not "fermented;" it contains all the natural sugars and only yeast that occurs naturally within the grape development. Just as the "unleavened" bread contains whole flour and that has trace natural occurring yeast.

All modern "fermented" wine uses cultured yeast products that are added and blended. Just as any schooled chef knows that yeast is added to cause breads to rise but that all whole wheat flour contains a form of natural yeast - just not enough to cause the bread to rise.

More to the point, I personally would not support this assembly.

If I were the pastor of a near assembly in the same state or in the same association, I might consider bringing up the planting needs to my assembly and considering some type of "love offering" in which believers may contribute as impressed by the Holy Spirit.

Teaching the appropriate perspective on intoxicants is not a "ludicrous" topic. Those who teach abstinence and the appropriate doctor prescribed use of intoxicants were not just in this last 100 years.

Paul would not have instructed Timothy if drinking wine were "the new-fangled abstinence standeeeerd made by man."
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HankD

HankD

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
mandym said:
If you do not allow it in your church why would you support another church that does it. That would be inconsistent at best and hypocritical at worst.
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It's a matter of local church preference, autonomy and soul liberty.

HankD
 
M

Mexdeaf

New Member
mandym said:
I am not arguing that. What I am saying is that if a church finds any alcohol consumption immoral and that is the doctrine they teahc and hold to then why would they support a church plant that uses alcohol under any circumstance. That would be inconsistent at best and hypocritical at worst.
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Alcohol consumption is not immoral- if that is true that someone taking Nyquil would be immoral. Drunkenness is immoral.
 
Jerome

Jerome

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Here's the Southern Baptist North American Mission Board standard for church planters:

http://www.namb.net/self-assessment/

Missions personnel are expected to abstain from the use of alcohol and illegal drugs. They will neither advocate nor condone the use of alcohol as a beverage or the illegal use of drugs, marijuana, or other controlled substances.
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Furthermore:

When candidates are considered for appointment there must be at least 12 months abstinence prior to appointment.
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agedman

agedman

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Chad Whiteley said:
Our communion wine is made from just grapes (nothing added and nothing taken away), as many wines are. You post shows that you have limited understanding of enology.

That is all.
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I may have limited understanding in many things, but the post is accurate as well as this one.

The wines of the day are made by adding yeast. If the wine is "fermented" either the natural yeast has bittered the wine, or yeast has been added.

The "unleavened" is to be without added yeast. Because natural wheat has limited yeast and natural grape juice has limited yeast, that is the elements that are appropriate for the Lord's supper. It was never the case that natural occurring yeast was not in the unleavened bread and wine. It was that there was no ADDING of yeast to the mixtures.

Those who mingle intoxicants into the Lord's supper actually are bringing in some level of added yeast.
 
agedman

agedman

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
SaggyWoman said:
While I can appreciate this for whatever reason, is taking a part in Communion with barely a sip of wine considered "using alcohol"?
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Look upon the Cross of Christ for the answer.

First sip - water with no intoxicant - accepted and enjoyed.

Send sip - water with intoxicant - spit out.



Would you drink the water from a pool if you knew it contained only one sip of bird leavings? :flower:
 
M

Mexdeaf

New Member
agedman said:
Look upon the Cross of Christ for the answer.

First sip - water with no intoxicant - accepted and enjoyed.

Send sip - water with intoxicant - spit out.



Would you drink the water from a pool if you knew it contained only one sip of bird leavings? :flower:
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You would be surprised (and likely appalled) if you knew what is in the water you drink!
 
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