Poll to assist with CvA Defininitions

[steaver]

Ah yes, the evil sinner---good deeds snafu. Let me explain it to you this way. You're at a five-star restaurant, and you order filet mignon. They even allow you in the back to watch the chef prepare it for you. You observe him going to the bathroom and dipping his hands in a "soiled" toilet, comes out, handles you meat w/o so much as wipping his hands off...and also handles the rest of your meal with the same "soiled" hands. Would you eat it? That's the way God sees our deeds as sinner. The filet mignon was good, but the chef defiled it by handling it with defiled...sinned encrusted....hands. That's why our "good" deeds aren't good in His sight. That's why the plowing of the wicked is sin. They defile everything they touch in God's sight.

Not quite sure I follow here, so this means Jesus was lying when He said the Father would give the Holy Spirit to those who ask?

She got that water, too. Many believed upon her testimony. She was already thirsty....already blessed....Jesus came to quinch her thirst, and did so. This neither supports or detracts you stance, btw.

How can you miss the fact that Jesus said she would ask if she knew the gift of God and who it was that was able to give it?

They had the Spirit move upon them to perform certain tasks in the OT, so then I guess David, Solomon, Moses and Aaron are on the outside looking in, eh?

Why would you think that? They died in faith, afterwards, when Jesus was glorified, they too received the Holy Spirit when Jesus led captivity captive.

They, under the OT, looked forwards to the cross, whereas we look backwards at it. They did in faith.

Yes, and they received NOT the promise. Do you know what the promise is?

I showed you many verses

They must not have posted, Can you resubmit them? :thumbs:

 

[convicted1]

Scripture please.............

"Jesus answered and said to him, `Verily, verily, I say to thee, If any one may not be born from above, he is not able to see the reign of God; 'Nicodemus saith unto him, `How is a man able to be born, being old? is he able into the womb of his mother a second time to enter, and to be born?' Jesus answered, `Verily, verily, I say to thee, If any one may not be born of water, and the Spirit, he is not able to enter into the reign of God; that which hath been born of the flesh is flesh, and that which hath been born of the Spirit is spirit. `Thou mayest not wonder that I said to thee, It behoveth you to be born from above; the Spirit where he willeth doth blow, and his voice thou dost hear, but thou hast not known whence he cometh, and whither he goeth; thus is every one who hath been born of the Spirit.'" 9John 3:4-8 YLT)



Jesus told Nicodemus 'it behoveth you to be born from above'. No one is able to be 'born from above', no more than the Jews at Jesus' crucifixion could have rent the veil of the temple in two, from top to bottom, as it was torn. The new birth precedes any action we do.




"Beloved, may we love one another, because the love is of God, and every one who is loving, of God he hath been begotten, and doth know God;" (1 John 4:7 YLT)



"And I have given to them one heart, And a new spirit I do give in your midst, And I have turned the heart of stone out of their flesh, And I have given to them a heart of flesh." (Eze. 11:19 YLT)


"And I have given to you a new heart, And a new spirit I give in your midst, And I have turned aside the heart of stone out of your flesh, And I have given to you a heart of flesh." (Eze. 36:26 YLT)


Then God also opened Lydia's heart to believe.

 

[convicted1]

Not quite sure I follow here, so this means Jesus was lying when He said the Father would give the Holy Spirit to those who ask?



How can you miss the fact that Jesus said she would ask if she knew the gift of God and who it was that was able to give it?



Why would you think that? They died in faith, afterwards, when Jesus was glorified, they too received the Holy Spirit when Jesus led captivity captive.



Yes, and they received NOT the promise. Do you know what the promise is?



They must not have posted, Can you resubmit them? :thumbs:

I didn't state book, chapter, and verse, but I paraphrased them in my previous posting direct at your post...

 

[Revmitchell]

"Jesus answered and said to him, `Verily, verily, I say to thee, If any one may not be born from above, he is not able to see the reign of God; 'Nicodemus saith unto him, `How is a man able to be born, being old? is he able into the womb of his mother a second time to enter, and to be born?' Jesus answered, `Verily, verily, I say to thee, If any one may not be born of water, and the Spirit, he is not able to enter into the reign of God; that which hath been born of the flesh is flesh, and that which hath been born of the Spirit is spirit. `Thou mayest not wonder that I said to thee, It behoveth you to be born from above; the Spirit where he willeth doth blow, and his voice thou dost hear, but thou hast not known whence he cometh, and whither he goeth; thus is every one who hath been born of the Spirit.'" 9John 3:4-8 YLT)



Jesus told Nicodemus 'it behoveth you to be born from above'. No one is able to be 'born from above', no more than the Jews at Jesus' crucifixion could have rent the veil of the temple in two, from top to bottom, as it was torn. The new birth precedes any action we do.




"Beloved, may we love one another, because the love is of God, and every one who is loving, of God he hath been begotten, and doth know God;" (1 John 4:7 YLT)



"And I have given to them one heart, And a new spirit I do give in your midst, And I have turned the heart of stone out of their flesh, And I have given to them a heart of flesh." (Eze. 11:19 YLT)


"And I have given to you a new heart, And a new spirit I give in your midst, And I have turned aside the heart of stone out of your flesh, And I have given to you a heart of flesh." (Eze. 36:26 YLT)


Then God also opened Lydia's heart to believe.

There is nothing there that says any such thing.

 

[convicted1]

c'est la vie.....

 

[steaver]

"Jesus answered and said to him, `Verily, verily, I say to thee, If any one may not be born from above, he is not able to see the reign of God; 'Nicodemus saith unto him, `How is a man able to be born, being old? is he able into the womb of his mother a second time to enter, and to be born?' Jesus answered, `Verily, verily, I say to thee, If any one may not be born of water, and the Spirit, he is not able to enter into the reign of God; that which hath been born of the flesh is flesh, and that which hath been born of the Spirit is spirit. `Thou mayest not wonder that I said to thee, It behoveth you to be born from above; the Spirit where he willeth doth blow, and his voice thou dost hear, but thou hast not known whence he cometh, and whither he goeth; thus is every one who hath been born of the Spirit.'" 9John 3:4-8 YLT)



Jesus told Nicodemus 'it behoveth you to be born from above'. No one is able to be 'born from above', no more than the Jews at Jesus' crucifixion could have rent the veil of the temple in two, from top to bottom, as it was torn. The new birth precedes any action we do.




"Beloved, may we love one another, because the love is of God, and every one who is loving, of God he hath been begotten, and doth know God;" (1 John 4:7 YLT)



"And I have given to them one heart, And a new spirit I do give in your midst, And I have turned the heart of stone out of their flesh, And I have given to them a heart of flesh." (Eze. 11:19 YLT)


"And I have given to you a new heart, And a new spirit I give in your midst, And I have turned aside the heart of stone out of your flesh, And I have given to you a heart of flesh." (Eze. 36:26 YLT)


Then God also opened Lydia's heart to believe.

Not one of these passages states that God regenerates unto belief, not one. We do have many passages (I've given you a few) which states that a person is to ask, and then God performs regeneration as stated in those passages you provided.

Scripture must interpret scripture, it all must work in harmony together. Birthing yourself is not the issue, no one can birth themselves from above. The issue is whether God does it without any input from the person, or if God has an open offer and does it when a person ask.
I believe Jesus made it pretty clear the order, ask and then.........

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Not so. Being regenerated is a one time event whereas conversion is a process.

Right:thumbsup:

 

[steaver]

Not so. Being regenerated is a one time event whereas conversion is a process.

This is another example of how Calvinism needs to dismiss the clear teaching that regeneration does not happen prior to the freewill of man asking. The Calvinist cries 'God does not need permission, He is Sovereign!' , In God's Sovereignty, God has implemented a freewill choice. In God's Sovereignty, God is allowed to set it up as He sees fit. Regeneration and Conversion are one and the same in Scripture.

 

[Yeshua1]

This is another example of how Calvinism needs to dismiss the clear teaching that regeneration does not happen prior to the freewill of man asking. The Calvinist cries 'God does not need permission, He is Sovereign!' , In God's Sovereignty, God has implemented a freewill choice. In God's Sovereignty, God is allowed to set it up as He sees fit. Regeneration and Conversion are one and the same in Scripture.

Would say that the Bible no where teaches us that one is regenerated for a long period of time before getting saved, but that when the Lord moves upon the sinner to bring His Grace unto them, and to make them born again, they will experience all things at same time form our human perspective!

 

[pinoybaptist]

This is another example of how Calvinism needs to dismiss the clear teaching that regeneration does not happen prior to the freewill of man asking. The Calvinist cries 'God does not need permission, He is Sovereign!' , In God's Sovereignty, God has implemented a freewill choice. In God's Sovereignty, God is allowed to set it up as He sees fit. Regeneration and Conversion are one and the same in Scripture.

This is another example of why steaverists need to get off their high horses and realize that God IS sovereign and needs no permission from any creature nor would allow Himself to be put in a box where He is expected to be a God of love to everybody if He is to be a loving God to even one lowly worm.

 

[pinoybaptist]

Oh, yeah, as for the mythical free will of man asking to be regenerated ?
Never read of one in the Bible.

 

[steaver]

Oh, yeah, as for the mythical free will of man asking to be regenerated ?
Never read of one in the Bible.

Ps51:10 - David's cry - "Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me"

Tis why Nicodemus should have know of the rebirth that was prophesied to come...................

 

[OldRegular]

Synergism: the doctrine that the human will cooperates with the Holy Ghost in the work of regeneration.

Monergism: the doctrine that the Holy Ghost acts independently of the human will in the work of regeneration.

I am not big on Calvinism vs Arminianism. I probably prefer "Hardshell vs Freewill" myself but I bet there is not a Baptist on this board that is not at least a "one point Calvinist".

Anyhow I believe Salvation is only by the Sovereign Grace of God. I suppose that makes me a Monergist or a Hardshell!

 

[OldRegular]

This is another example of how Calvinism needs to dismiss the clear teaching that regeneration does not happen prior to the freewill of man asking. The Calvinist cries 'God does not need permission, He is Sovereign!' , In God's Sovereignty, God has implemented a freewill choice. In God's Sovereignty, God is allowed to set it up as He sees fit. Regeneration and Conversion are one and the same in Scripture.

Paraphrasing? Are you saying that Sovereign God makes man sovereign in salvation?

 

[OldRegular]

Deliberate sabotage.



Classic Mugwumpism.



Mugwumpial Confusionism.

Back to Breathitt County with you!:smilewinkgrin:

 

[OldRegular]

I am not a PB but I see them different but inseperable, just as repentance and faith are different but inseparable. Conversion is the experiential side of regeneration. Regeneration is a creative act of God while conversion is the experiential consequence of that act.

That states it well! Scripture probably says it better!

Philippians 1:6. Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

Election, then in time regeneration, then ...........until the day of Jesus Christ!

 

[steaver]

Paraphrasing? Are you saying that Sovereign God makes man sovereign in salvation?

Giving man freedom to choose does not make man sovereign in salvation. Man cannot regenerate himself, salvation is ALL of God. We freely receive because Jesus Christ paid the penalty for sin. I did not hang on that cross a perfect sacrifice, salvation is all Jesus Christ.

 

[Yeshua1]

Giving man freedom to choose does not make man sovereign in salvation. Man cannot regenerate himself, salvation is ALL of God. We freely receive because Jesus Christ paid the penalty for sin. I did not hang on that cross a perfect sacrifice, salvation is all Jesus Christ.

true...

Think the question then would be did you decide to come to jesus due to your own free will , or due to Him granting you the freedom to receive jesus first?

 

[tyndale1946]

Go To The Cross Of Christ

If you brethren want to see regeneration in action go to the cross of Christ and observe the attitude of the two thieves. One was saved eternally and the other was not. Who was there to regenerate that thief? He was just like the other thief until he was regenerated. Point of fact he did not regenerate himself. In Romans 8:29-30 all that came to pass to that thief who had been a reprobate all his life at that instant. He was saved at the cross. While he hung for his crimes and was justly condemned. Christ NEVER condemned him. Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom. And Jesus, said unto him I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise. The other thief was left where he was but that is election and another topic... If you know the truth, the truth shall set you and if the Son shall set you free ye shall be free indeed!

 

[steaver]

If you brethren want to see regeneration in action go to the cross of Christ and observe the attitude of the two thieves. One was saved eternally and the other was not. Who was there to regenerate that thief? He was just like the other thief until he was regenerated. Point of fact he did not regenerate himself. In Romans 8:29-30 all that came to pass to that thief who had been a reprobate all his life at that instant. He was saved at the cross. While he hung for his crimes and was justly condemned. Christ NEVER condemned him. Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom. And Jesus, said unto him I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise. The other thief was left where he was but that is election and another topic... If you know the truth, the truth shall set you and if the Son shall set you free ye shall be free indeed!

Another great example of how one asks first and then God saves. Thanks! I forgot about that one. Of course regeneration was not implemented until after Jesus Christ was glorified (Luke 7). Notice Jesus said to the thief that he would be in "Paradise", this is where all believers went until Jesus' work on the cross was completed. Then Jesus led captivity captive.