Originally posted by Ramdu:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by DHK:
I explained that above.
1. With a proper exegesis of 1Cor.13:8-13 we find that tongues ceased with the completion of the Bible.
My friend, you are practicing eisegesis by jumping to your unwarranted conclusion from this verse. Let's look at the verse:
1CO 13:8 Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away.
If your interpretation is correct, then knowledge must have also passed away. If this is the case, perhaps we should shut down all of the seminaries! </font>[/QUOTE]
If you had been paying attention and reading this thread you would have already known that everytime I have used the word "knowledge" in reference to 1Cor.13:8, I have specified it as "revelatory knowledge." I trust that you can tell the difference between revelatory knowledge and common knowledge. If you can't go back and read through the thread.
Let's put the above verse in context:
1CO 13:8 Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10 but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears. 11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me. 12 Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.
As valuable as God's written word is to us, it has not brought us to completed perfection, and it has not caused me to see God face to face!
Where do you get this term "completed perfection" from? It is term that you made up, and it is rather redundant.
First keep things in context. The context is revelation--the revealed word of God. That is what tongues, prophecy and revelatory knowledge all are. They are different methods that God had of revealing his word to mankind especially in the first century. But someday, according to verse 8, these methods of communicating God's revelation would cease. And they did. They ceased when they were no longer needed, that is when the perfect or the completed Word of God came--near the ned of the first century. This is the naural reading of the passage. The context before and after is revelation--the Word of God.
What does the Word of God say:
When that which is perfect is come.
The word perfect in the Greek meanns complete. Thus, when that which is "complete" is come. The New Testament was completed at the end of the first century. Thus the temporary gifts (prophecy, tongues, and revelatory knowledge) were done away with, or ceased to be, as the Bible promised. The Bible became complete. That is the meaning of the Old English word "perfect" and the Greek word teleiov as well.
I
still do not know fully even though I am fully known (by God).
Much of our behavior as Christians and as the Church are spiritually childlike, and we've had 2,000 years to work on this stuff. Yes, we still only see a poor reflection (which is much better then NO reflection, which is what the unbeliever has) of Christ and what He has called us to be!
Paul was writing. He is writing in the first person singular.
1 Corinthians 13:11-12 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
The allusion to his childhood is an allusion to his spiriual maturity. He writes to the Corinthians in chapter 3 and tells them that they are still babes in Christ. They still need milk. They cannot yet digest the meat of the Word. They haven't grown up yet. Using that analogy, Paul says that when he was a child he put away childish things, that is the seeking after the more showy spiritual gifts, the gifts that would cause them to feel proud, ets. In 1Cor.12:28 he lists the gifts in order of importance and puts tongues at the end as the least important of all the gifts. And then goes on to say that greater than all the gifts put together one should seek after love. This was the greatest gift. If you have not love, it profits you nothing (no matter what you may have). In the context of love, Paul said I put away childish things--competing for showy gifts of the Spirit, like the Corinthians had been doing. That was carnality, just like it is today.
Now we see through a glass darkly. The glass is a mirror. The mirror is the mirror of the Word of God. This symbol is used often in the Word of God. God's Word reflects back our image (who we are) to us. And His Spirit convicts us as a consequence. But Paul only had a part of the Word of God--the Old Testament. He said: "Now we look through a glass darkly" (referring to the Old Testament). The completed Word of God (all the New Testament) would brightly shine forth as we read it and show us who we really are in the sight of God. How much more revelation there is about man and his need for Christ in the New Testament than in the Old. How plainly it tells us of who we are, what our need us, how our need can be met, etc.
James 1:23-25 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer,
he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass: For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.
But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.
--Here the Word of God is compared to a mirror, as it is elsewhere.
So we must conclude that prophecies, tongues, knowledge, and the other gifts of the Holy Spirit described together in 1 Cor. 12:28-30 are still desperately needed by God's people on earth today.
No such conclusion is warranted.
And Satan knows this. That's why he has worked so hard to pervert the practice and use of these gifts by many false manifestations.
Quite true. The gift of tongues and of healing in particular are gifts that are imitated. They have ceased, and are not Biblicall practiced today. Like you say: Satan has worked hard to perver the practice and use of these gifts.
DHK
