Poll: Tongues

[prophecynut]

Originally posted by Ed Edwards:

1Co 14:39 (KJV1611 Edition):
Wherefore brethren, couet to prophesie,
and forbid not to speake with tongues.

Your statement appears to violate this Biblical
non-optional instruction.

You are still unable to distinguish the difference between true tongues and the false tongues you speak.

If someone comes in and speaks a known foreign language and there is no one to interpret for the edification of others then he should cease with his utterances.

If someone like you begins babbling a counterfeit language in a church he should be corrected and asked to leave.

 

[Ed Edwards]

I can't edit that and conserve the greek letters.

In these verses the King James Version translators
considered that the meaning of the Greek
term 'glōssa' was best translated by two
English words "unknown" and "tongue".

Of course 'unknown' is NOT in the Greek.
But 'unknown tongue' is in the Greek, it is
called 'glōssa'.

 

[Ed Edwards]

Prophecynut: "You are still unable to distinguish the difference between true tongues and the false tongues you speak."

YOu missed a lot, brother. I never said i spake an 'unknown
tongue' ('glōssa' in Greek).

And be careful lest you prohibit the speaking
of tongues

 

[prophecynut]

unknown tongues

Mt. 6:7 - "And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words." NIV

1 Cor. 14:9 - "...Unless you speak intelligible words with your tongue, how will anyone know what you are saying? You will just be speaking into the air."

V. 14 - "For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful."

 

[Ed Edwards]

DHK: "Take in context Ed."

You take it in context:

When you scrap 1 Corinthians 14 do you scrap this verse
also? This verse is part of the context of what you
are scrapping for the 21st century.

1Co 14:34 (KJV1611 Edition):
Let your women keepe silence in the Churches,
for it is not permitted vnto them to speake;
but they are commanded to bee vnder obedience:
as also saith the Law.

Note that this would prohibit a woman singing a solo
or in the choir.

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by Ed Edwards:
DHK: "And how is this accomplished Ed? Without any studying on your own does the Holy Spirit just suddenly give you some language such as Cree, Hindi, Norwegian, Danish, Punjabi, Baluchi, etc. What "unknown languages" do you speak to yourself ih?"

The source of your confusion is that you assume falsly
that "unknown tongue" in the KJV has no meaning. It has a
meaning; like when the tongue (language) is NOT KNOWN by
humans. The only sounds that my tongue can form is those
which i learned before i was about six (any i've learned after
will be said with an accent). So the syllables will be English,
but the language is unknown.

Then according to your own admission, Ed, you do not speak in Biblical tongues. The gift of tongues was speaking in another foreign language, all the time.
Making Englsh syllables, and stringing them together, do not make an "unknown language" just plain nonsensical gibberish. If you or anyone else do not know the language you are speaking in, you are not speaking in tongues.
DHK

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by Ed Edwards:
DHK: "Take in context Ed."

You take it in context:

When you scrap 1 Corinthians 14 do you scrap this verse
also? This verse is part of the context of what you
are scrapping for the 21st century.

1Co 14:34 (KJV1611 Edition):
Let your women keepe silence in the Churches,
for it is not permitted vnto them to speake;
but they are commanded to bee vnder obedience:
as also saith the Law.

Note that this would prohibit a woman singing a solo
or in the choir.

Some years ago we had an elderly lady in our church that every once in a while would interrupt the preaching service by loudly asking a question right in the middle of a service.
This is what Paul was talking about. There were ladies speaking in tongues in the church, and interruping the preaching. They were a source of confusion. Paul said that they should be quiet. Besides, speaking in tongues (i.e. another language was a form of revelation, a form of instruction). It is not lawful for a woman to have authority over a man, nor to teach a man. That also was a prohibition in the church. Singing (in due order) was not.
DHK

 

[Ed Edwards]

DHK: "Then according to your own admission, Ed, you do not speak
in Biblical tongues. The gift of tongues was speaking
in another foreign language, all the time."

Again, your logic: if a is true; then a is true
is correct but trivial

But, i guess it is nice to be correct occasionally

 

[ASLANSPAL]

Just another angle on this I think when John
witnessed and heard what he saw and put down
in scripture ...the very word Hallelujah it was
a angelic sound, an angelic exclamation ..from
heaven to earth...we now can say an angelic
word because of John.

http://www.fpcjackson.org/resources/sermons/Derek's%20SERMONS/revelation/revchpt19.1.htm

What we have in Revelation is the original Hallelujah chorus!
There is something almost indescribable about the worship of heaven. John has to resort to the comparison "like" (19:1, 6, 12). There is no language that adequately describes it. What glory there is in heavenly worship!

Hallelujah! This is what they sing in heaven (19:1, 3, 4, 6). Surprising as it may seem, the word "Hallelujah" occurs for the very first time in the Bible at this point! This fact somewhat obscures the fact that its Hebrew equivalent, often translated "Praise the LORD" occurs frequently in the Old Testament (mainly in the psalms, and over half of these occurrences in the six Psalms 135, 146-150). The word has become so much a part of our Christian vocabulary, we might easily miss the appropriateness of its occurrence (four times) in this chapter. Coming as it does from the Hebrew, "praise Yahweh," it signals the desire of the heavenly multitude (19:1) to render all the praise to the Lord for the accomplishment of this downfall of evil’s tyranny. It is the Lord who has done this great thing.


The word Holy?did it imho come from heaven to earth via the ears and then transcription of the Prophet.

Isaiah 6: 1-3 brings us knowledge of another classification of angels, the Seraphim. Unlike the Cherubim, these creatures do not stand with their back to the throne. Rather, they face the throne, worshipping God continuously, singing, “Holy, holy, holy, is the Lord of hosts: the whole earth is full of His glory!” However, though they worship God, so clearly do these awesome creatures understand their rightful place in reference to God that they worship with two of their wings covering their faces and two covering their feet. Called living creatures (Rev 4:8), these angels stand in contrast with the cherubim, serving to denote the purification necessary for a creature to stand before the Creator. Chafer (Op. cit.), quoting Scofield, states it this way:

The Seraphim are, in many respects, in contrast with the Cherubim though both are expressive of the divine holiness, which demands that the sinner shall have acce3ss to the divine presence only through a sacrifice which really vindicates the righteousness of God (Rom 3.24-26, notes), and that the saint shall be cleansed before serving. Gen. 3.22-24 illustrates the first; Isa. 6.1-8 the second. The Cherubim may be said to have to do with the altar, the Seraphin with the laver.”

Isaiah's Vision and Commission
(A) 1 In the year that King Uzziah died, I saw the Lord sitting on a throne, high and lifted up, and the train of His robe filled the temple. 2Above it stood seraphim; each one had six wings: with two he covered his face, with two he covered his feet, and with two he flew. 3And one cried to another and said:
"Holy, holy, holy is the LORD of hosts;
The whole earth is full of His glory!"

my humble comment: It seems to me that Holy is
an angelic exclamation but I think I am on firmer
ground with Rev. and Hallelujah! just seems
interesting to me.

I have not done detailed study on Hosanna! which again sounds heavenly but probably isn't still it
is interesting to study.

And the blind and the lame came to Him in the Temple, and He healed them. But when the chief priests and the scribes saw the wonderful things that He did, and the children crying out in the Temple, "Hosanna to the Son of David!" they were indignant; and they said to Him, "Do you hear what these are saying?" And Jesus said to them, "Yes; have you never read, 'Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings thou hast brought perfect praise'" (Matthew 21:1-16 RSV)

Hosanna is even more of a stretch one hint it
may be heavenly is the last part of Matthew 21:16

We know this for sure that the Prophet Isaiah
and the Apostle John actually got to tune in
to heavenly angelic praise and exclamations
projecting praise and worth.

Did they bring back some heavenly words spoken
by angels?

 

[tamborine lady]

1 Cor-13:1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.

So the fact still remains; there are tongues of men and tongues of angels. If it were not so, Paul would not have mentioned it. But he also said if we don't have love (for one another) it's just so much noise.

Maybe that's why some don't believe it's for today, because they have never seen the gift in action with love!

BTW, most people with the true gift are not the ones running around with the "hey look what I've got" attitude.

Peace,

Tam

 

[prophecynut]

Tammy my dear lady:

You have been speaking counterfeit tongues.

1 Cor. 14:7-9
There is no distinction in your verbalizations.
There is no message that can be evaluated.
Your mind is unfruitful and no one understands.

In summation, you sound like a tambourine .

 

[Thankful]

I find this discussion extremely interesting. I have been in a Southern Baptist Church all my life. Tongues were NEVER mentioned when I was growing up in my SB church. Then on to college, I went... to a Southern Baptist College. Tongues were NEVER mentioned there either.

It was during college that I first experienced people speaking in tongues. This group took over the building where our mission church was located and I was very uncomfortable with all the shouting and jumping and leaping in the service. My first experience with tongues and it was unpleasant mainly because this group had kicked us out (not sure what church they were from).

Then began the religious services on television and there were the ones who said, "you are not saved" if you cannot speak in tongues. This interested me because I knew I was saved, but I couldn't speak in tongues.

During this time, I met people who could speak in tongues. I started research on my own, but it seemed that anyone connected with the Baptist Church would not even talk about tongues.

One day in Sunday School Class, we were reading about the gifts of the Holy Spirit and it said "SOME are given the gift of tongues." This was an "light bulb" moment for me. So much so that I said outloud, " so some people have the gift of tongues." The teacher, quickly said, We are NOT going to talk about tongues.

Just like this thread, the ones who believe in tongues do not get a chance to explain and tell their experience without someone saying, "You can't talk in tongues and if you do, it is of the devil"

I believe that the gifts of the Spirt are for today and I have not seen anything or scripture in thread to show me otherwise.

I would sincerely like to hear from those who can speak in tongues.

Before some one jumps to conclusions, I cannot speak in tongues and no one in my church speaks in tongues.

 

[tamborine lady]

Originally posted by prophecynut:
Tammy my dear lady:

You have been speaking counterfeit tongues.

1 Cor. 14:7-9
There is no distinction in your verbalizations.
There is no message that can be evaluated.
Your mind is unfruitful and no one understands.

In summation, you sound like a tambourine .

Prophecynut(emphasis on the nut)

My God understands me, and since He is the one who I am speaking to, there's no problem. You, on the other hand don't make any sense to me, so YOU are the "tinkling cymbil and sounding brass".

I don't order my life by what man says I should think, I live the way God tells me in the word. (Bible)

selah,

Tam

 

[Brian30755]

Prophecynut(emphasis on the nut)

I wish y'all wouldn't make me laugh out loud at work. Makes 'em think I'M nuts.

 

[ChurchBoy]

Originally posted by Thankful:
I find this discussion extremely interesting. I have been in a Southern Baptist Church all my life. Tongues were NEVER mentioned when I was growing up in my SB church. Then on to college, I went... to a Southern Baptist College. Tongues were NEVER mentioned there either.

It was during college that I first experienced people speaking in tongues. This group took over the building where our mission church was located and I was very uncomfortable with all the shouting and jumping and leaping in the service. My first experience with tongues and it was unpleasant mainly because this group had kicked us out (not sure what church they were from).

Then began the religious services on television and there were the ones who said, "you are not saved" if you cannot speak in tongues. This interested me because I knew I was saved, but I couldn't speak in tongues.

During this time, I met people who could speak in tongues. I started research on my own, but it seemed that anyone connected with the Baptist Church would not even talk about tongues.

One day in Sunday School Class, we were reading about the gifts of the Holy Spirit and it said "SOME are given the gift of tongues." This was an "light bulb" moment for me. So much so that I said outloud, " so some people have the gift of tongues." The teacher, quickly said, We are NOT going to talk about tongues.

Just like this thread, the ones who believe in tongues do not get a chance to explain and tell their experience without someone saying, "You can't talk in tongues and if you do, it is of the devil"

I believe that the gifts of the Spirt are for today and I have not seen anything or scripture in thread to show me otherwise.

I would sincerely like to hear from those who can speak in tongues.

Before some one jumps to conclusions, I cannot speak in tongues and no one in my church speaks in tongues.

Thankful,

Great post!

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by tamborine lady:


My God understands me, and since He is the one who I am speaking to, there's no problem. You, on the other hand don't make any sense to me, so YOU are the "tinkling cymbil and sounding brass".

I don't order my life by what man says I should think, I live the way God tells me in the word. (Bible)

selah,

Tam

How do you know God understands you? This is a fallacy many make. First tell us what language you speak in. It is not the tongues of angels. That can be proven from Scripture. If you would like the proof say so. Biblical tongues are always real known foreign languages. What language do you speak in? If you don't know then I assume you speak in gibberish just like all the rest of moder-day tongue speakers. All gibberish is, is a string of nonsensical syllables said over and over again. It doesn't make sense even to the wisest of linguists, and not even to God.

You are putting God into a box and asking him to understand the incomprehensible--something impossible to do. Before you get riled up and say that nothing is impossible for God--something the atheists accuse of us saying, stop and considet that there are many things that God cannot do:
God cannot lie. The Scripture say so.
God cannot do anything against his nature, nor against His Word.
Can God create a two sided triangle? No.
Can God make 2 + 2 = 3? No.
God cannot do those things which are outside the definitions that man has defined for him to do. It is a matter of logic and definition, not power.

Prayer is communication. It is a person that speaks to God and allows God speak to them, primarily through His Word. There is no speaking to God involved in gibberish because no one (not even God) understands what is being said. You don't know the language you are speaking in, and neither does God. The reason--it isn't a language. It is a string on nonsensical syllables put together which you mistakenly call tongues. It is non-communication. Not even God can understand that.
True prayer is communication with God in a language that both can understand, so that you can make your requests known unto God. When you pray to God, do you follow this command:

John 16:24 Hitherto have ye asked nothing in my name: ask, and ye shall receive, that your joy may be full.
--ask in my name he says; not in the name of tongues.

Jeremiah 33:3 Call unto me, and I will answer thee, and shew thee great and mighty things, which thou knowest not.

1 John 5:14 And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us:

How do you ask according to his will, if you don't know what you are saying??
DHK

 

[tamborine lady]

My, my, my how you do go on! I know what I'm doing whether it makes sense to you or not.

bless him Lord,

Selah,

Tam

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by tamborine lady:

My, my, my how you do go on! I know what I'm doing whether it makes sense to you or not.

bless him Lord,

Selah,

Tam

You know what you are doing. I believe you. But do you honestly know what you are saying?

 

[atestring]

Originally posted by DHK:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by tamborine lady:


My God understands me, and since He is the one who I am speaking to, there's no problem. You, on the other hand don't make any sense to me, so YOU are the "tinkling cymbil and sounding brass".

I don't order my life by what man says I should think, I live the way God tells me in the word. (Bible)

selah,

Tam

How do you know God understands you? This is a fallacy many make. First tell us what language you speak in. It is not the tongues of angels. That can be proven from Scripture. If you would like the proof say so. Biblical tongues are always real known foreign languages. What language do you speak in? If you don't know then I assume you speak in gibberish just like all the rest of moder-day tongue speakers. All gibberish is, is a string of nonsensical syllables said over and over again. It doesn't make sense even to the wisest of linguists, and not even to God.

You are putting God into a box and asking him to understand the incomprehensible--something impossible to do. Before you get riled up and say that nothing is impossible for God--something the atheists accuse of us saying, stop and considet that there are many things that God cannot do:
God cannot lie. The Scripture say so.
God cannot do anything against his nature, nor against His Word.
Can God create a two sided triangle? No.
Can God make 2 + 2 = 3? No.
God cannot do those things which are outside the definitions that man has defined for him to do. It is a matter of logic and definition, not power.

Prayer is communication. It is a person that speaks to God and allows God speak to them, primarily through His Word. There is no speaking to God involved in gibberish because no one (not even God) understands what is being said. You don't know the language you are speaking in, and neither does God. The reason--it isn't a language. It is a string on nonsensical syllables put together which you mistakenly call tongues. It is non-communication. Not even God can understand that.
True prayer is communication with God in a language that both can understand, so that you can make your requests known unto God. When you pray to God, do you follow this command:

John 16:24 Hitherto have ye asked nothing in my name: ask, and ye shall receive, that your joy may be full.
--ask in my name he says; not in the name of tongues.

Jeremiah 33:3 Call unto me, and I will answer thee, and shew thee great and mighty things, which thou knowest not.

1 John 5:14 And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us:

How do you ask according to his will, if you don't know what you are saying??
DHK </font>[/QUOTE]dk&h What qualifies you to be the expert on this subject.
Is there any smoke coming out of a chapel somewhere?

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by atestring:
dk&h What qualifies you to be the expert on this subject.
Is there any smoke coming out of a chapel somewhere?

Instead of a personal attack, deal with Scripture. If you have nothing of any value to say, then keep it to yourself. If I am wrong in what I say, then demonstrate it through Scripture.
DHK