POLL: Woman for President

Posted by C4K

Yes I do believe in every situation women should follow the teachings of 1 Tim. Now can you please answer my question?

Your servant
Fishnbread

 

Please explain it - I don't understand your contention that I have never followed the word of God literally.

Don't really want to derail a thread about my personal spiritual walk with God however.

If you truly believe that all women are bound by all conditions of 1 Timothy 2 then you would agree that women have no right ever to express their views in public on any matter. Am I correct in my assesment?

 

Posted by C4K

I didnt say you never followed the word of God literally, that was your assumption. I did however imply that your not in this situation, not to insult you or anything.

Posted by C4K

I really can't respond to this statement. It's a great work of art to say the least.

Posted by C4K

NO! not really, your assesment is a bit over the top.

Your servant
fishnbread

 

"I thought I had followed the Bible literally at least once in my life."--------------------------------------------------------------------------

I've personally seen you do it twice here on BB. If you do it one more time, we will have to cannonize you! Just kidden ya!

 

Here is your question of me Fishnbread. It goes far beyond the context of this conversation.

Here is 1 Timothy 2v11

"Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection."

If I am to take this literally in the context you suggest for verse 12 - what am I to think about women in public? If verse 12 applies to women in politics, does not verse 11? I do my best to take the word of God literally. Please explain how verse 12 means that women cannot be political leaders, and verse 11 does not mean that they always have to be silent in political matters.

 

Here is your question of me Fishnbread. It goes far beyond the context of this conversation.

Here is 1 Timothy 2v11

"Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection."

If I am to take this literally in the context you suggest for verse 12 - what am I to think about women in public? If verse 12 applies to women in politics, does not verse 11? I do my best to take the word of God literally. Please explain how verse 12 means that women cannot be political leaders, and verse 11 does not mean that they always have to be silent in political matters.

[ November 05, 2005, 03:07 AM: Message edited by: C4K ]

 

Posted by C4K

The question Im was talking about was question one not question two, if you go back you will see that I asked two questions, my first question was why do you think God gave Adam authority over Eve? BTW forget I asked the second question, you can't answer it anyhow.

Posted by C4K

First off, you'r wrong Tim 11 means for women to be silent in church, second 1 Tim does mean women should not have authority and there is no evidence to support the hypothesis that the authority mentioned limited to the church.

Your servant
fishnbread

 

So verse 11 is about the church and verse 12 is about every situation? So women should never teach men in any setting?

Here is the passage in question.

1Ti 2v11-12 "Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence."

Is this your interpretation?
Let the women learn in silence with all subjection (in the church)
But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over a man, but to be in silence (in politics)"

Can a woman ever teach a man in any setting? But a woman always be silent? Please help me see the literal meaning of this passage.


Read back up - I did answer your question about Adam and Eve in a previous post.

 

Posted by C4K

Did I say that? or did YOU say that?

Here is the passage in question.

Posted by C4K

I already told you the literal meaning ,There is no reason to believe his teachings on authority were limited to the church other than the fact the he spoke of the church earlier in the chapter, which really doesnt say any thing in defense of your theory might I add.

Posted by C4K

No you did not answer my post you gave me a statement on the first marriage, I want to know why do you believe God gave Adam authority over Eve after the fall?

Your servant
Fishnbread

 

It's getting late, Go ahead and post your responce and I'll get back to you when I can.

Your servant
Fishnbread

 

So then to be consistant in being literal the following rules apply to all women in every situation.

1. All women are to learn in silence
2. All women are to be in subjection
3. No woman can teach anything
4. No woman can have any authority over a man
5. All women must be silent

That would be a literal, consistant view if the passage does not refer to the church alone. If you can agree with this consistant approach than I can at least respect your opinion.

God gave Adam authority over Eve, his wife, because she is the one who sinned first, because she was deceived.

[ November 05, 2005, 05:54 AM: Message edited by: C4K ]

 

Except in business. Somehow, I Tim. isn't applying to a business situation, but is applying to politics.

Fish, you've contradicted yourself so many times in so few posts I'm going to assume you're confused about the issue now.

There's nothing wrong with that. Take some time to study and figure it out! Everyone gets mixed up or has to change what they thought was true on certain issues!

Gina

 

Posted by C4K

First off, your wrong the definitions given by you are your own opinions
and do not neccessarliy reflect that off the auther of the context's given or implied message. Two God gave Adam the authority to protect him and all men from the womans bad judgement why do you think satan came after Eve? Because she was the weaker vessel. Would not it make sense that you would attack the weaker vessel? So why would God say: "Im going to protect the husbands from the womens bad choice making by giving him the authority, but Im not going to protect all the unmarried men in the whole country from the female presidents bad choice making? Use your brain Iv'e heard the stuff your talking and you are a very intelligent person. All Im asking you to do is analyse the cause, effect, and purpose behind the entire authority situation.

Your servant
fishnbread

 

Posted by GinaL

Please don't pretende to be un-intelligent. A bussiness leader is completly different from a political leader in so many facets I likely could not explain them all on one post.

Posted by GinaL

Don't be silly, You don't even know what your trying to say about me. Not disrespect you.

Posted by GinaL

Please tell me your joking? Please? You have much more sense than that.

Your servant
Fishnbread

 

Cause, effect, and purpose do not equate to a clear declaration of the Scriptures. I contend that I have taken a totally literal approch to the Scriptures on this topic.

Specifically, what is wrong about my list in instructions if this list is not intended for the church alone? I have very simply taken he restrictions and put them in the form of a list. These are not my definitions, they are straight from the Bible. You have stated that these apply to all women in an earlier post. Where have I erred in pointing out your view?

I refuse to insult you by telling you to "use your brain." I think we both are already doing that, that we both take a literal view of scripture, and that we honestly disagree. Nothing wrong with that.

 

Please don't pretende to be un-intelligent. A bussiness leader is completly different from a political leader in so many facets I likely could not explain them all on one post.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Do tell! Or, simply point out where God specifies between politics and business.


Posted by GinaL

Don't be silly, You don't even know what your trying to say about me. Not disrespect you.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I'm quite sure that is not true. I'm saying that you've contradicted yourself many times, and that leads me to believe you're confused about the issue.

Posted by GinaL

Please tell me your joking? Please? You have much more sense than that.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I'm not joking at all.
I'm going to assume at this point that you are a teen/young adult? I don't mean that in a bad way, just that it's an age where you think you don't have to study anymore because it's all black and white and God himself couldn't change it. From what you've said, it sounds like you've made a conclusion based on non-facts and outside of contexts in which they were given.



Your servant
Fishnbread </font>[/QUOTE]

 

Posted by C4K

Im sure a lot of homosexuals who get gender alteration surgeries will agree with you on that.

Posted by C4K

Nothing is wrong with your list besides the fact that you are building it on a foundation of assumsions.

Posted by C4K

That wasent a insult. But Im sorry if i hurt your feelings, and no Im not being sarcastic.

your servant
fishnbread

 

Posted by GinaL

1. A politician can create laws that put pressure on religeous liberty making it harder for us Baptists to bring others to our faith, a business leader cannot.

2. A politician can enact pro abortion bills that make it easier for our young to be sacrified, a business leader cannot.

3. A politician can approve bills that allow, homosexuals to teach elementery school kids the various facets of the homosexual life style, a business leader cannot.

The list goes on and on the fact is that politicians can effect almost every facet of our lives, just look at Iraq and Indonesia, Christians being killed left and right thats not the result of one business mans dream it's the result of some "Moslem Politicians" the bible says for us to have respect for those in authority because they watch for our souls. I see were parents can effect me, I see were pastors can effect me, I even see were politicians can effect me. But in no way can a business leader effect my ability to praise God a business leader is in no way the same as a politician the only similarities are there abilities to be bossy and a business leaders authority is restricted to a employment contract , which at any time I can terminate, If you put a president in office your at his mercy for four years.

BTW Im sorry I realize that I was a bit over the top with sme of the antics in my previous post and will try to tone my futer statements down.

Your servant
Fishnbread

 

1. A politician can create laws that put pressure on religeous liberty making it harder for us Baptists to bring others to our faith, a business leader cannot.

2. A politician can enact pro abortion bills that make it easier for our young to be sacrified, a business leader cannot.

3. A politician can approve bills that allow, homosexuals to teach elementery school kids the various facets of the homosexual life style, a business leader cannot.

The list goes on and on the fact is that politicians can effect almost every facet of our lives, just look at Iraq and Indonesia, Christians being killed left and right thats not the result of one business mans dream it's the result of some "Moslem Politicians" the bible says for us to have respect for those in authority because they watch for our souls. I see were parents can effect me, I see were pastors can effect me, I even see were politicians can effect me. But in no way can a business leader effect my ability to praise God a business leader is in no way the same as a politician the only similarities are there abilities to be bossy and a business leaders authority is restricted to a employment contract , which at any time I can terminate, If you put a president in office your at his mercy for four years.

BTW Im sorry I realize that I was a bit over the top with sme of the antics in my previous post and will try to tone my futer statements down.

Your servant
Fishnbread </font>[/QUOTE]Well lands sakes. Your mother affects you, your school teachers affect you, female doctors affect you, the testimony of a female donut maker affects you, Deborah affected many people as a judge, Esther affected many people with her actions. A female business manager is going to have the very friendly ear of the politicians in her area. Business is a STRONG influence on politics. A politician's wife has a strong influence on his decisions. Do you really think a president would be elected if his wife had no political influence herself? Should presidents be single because their wives will be in the position of First Lady?

If you're afraid of women having spiritual effects on people, the Bible and all Christian women and all married politicians and all ..

Nevermind, hopefully you understand my point.

I believe that's all I have to say, but thanks for listening and being polite, despite the fact that I'm female.

 

Once again you attempt to equate the logic for supporting homosexuality with support for women in political leadership. This debate tactic refuses to deal with the issue but seeks to make the opponents side look bad my comparing it with something which all sides will support you.

So do you agree with my list a requirements for all women from 1 Timothy 2 above. Do those standards:

apply to all women? If not, please explain how we can know which do apply in all cases and which do not. So far you have said that #4 applies to women except in business, do you feel the same about the rest?

Appreciate the apology, telling someone to "use your brain" is terribly condescending. Ss a teacher and preacher I would never tell a student or someone in my church to "use your brain."