Poor Pilates Plight

[Don]

If you consider light creating darkness by withdrawing itself then, yes, based on your definition, I believe God created sin.

God withdrew himself from Adam SO THAT ADAM COULD SIN.

There is no real good apart from God and there is no real evil that is not the result of God's withdrawal.

Is it possible for sin to enter heaven? No. Not as it now stands.

What would have to happen in order for sin to exist in heaven?

God would have to withdraw his goodness from that particular place where sin is to come to be.

Darkness is not possible in the presence of light.
Evil is not possible in the presence of God's goodness.

God MUST withdraw himself in order for evil to be.

That there IS evil is proof enough that God withdrew himself so that it could come to pass.

That is proof enough that God willed it to be.

I think this Augustinian position captures this idea pretty well"

When light is introduced, there is no darkness; but if the light is withdrawn, darkness is immediately there. In other words, the darkness is always there.

Think about that analogy for a couple of minutes, okay?

 

[Luke2427]

When light is introduced, there is no darkness; but if the light is withdrawn, darkness is immediately there. In other words, the darkness is always there.

Think about that analogy for a couple of minutes, okay?

Which came first? Light or darkness?

I say light, since God is light.

Light existed before the dark chasm existed which God commanded to give way to light again as the first act of creation.

God is light.
God is eternal.
Light is eternal.

That's my syllogism to prove it.

In him is no darkness at all. Darkness is not eternal.

God had to allow darkness to exist in order for it to exist. God had to withdraw his light from space so that space could be dark before creation. God had a plan for darkness. God willed darkness to be. God caused darkness on purpose.

God had a purpose for darkness.

Now... substitute the word "sin" for darkness and "good" for the word light and I think we will begin to see a picture of God's relationship to evil.

 

[matt wade]

But by posting that verse you are agreeing with me that God commands men to do what they cannot do to make a point that they need a Savior.

That's the point God makes by commanding men to do what they cannot do.

Luke, you have taught me that God does not need to make a point. God would only need to make a point to man IF man needing something to guide his choice. Man does not need guidance, because God makes all his choices for him. God has predetermined what men he will save and what men he will send to an eternity of torment. God has already decided what men he will keep for His pleasure and what men He will cast away for His pleasure. God does not need to make a point to a mere man! God simply makes the man choose Him (if of course that man is one of the chosen of God).

 

[matt wade]

Which came first? Light or darkness?

I say light, since God is light.

Light existed before the dark chasm existed which God commanded to give way to light again as the first act of creation.

Thank you Luke for again expanding my mind. (Actually I should thank God, because you made no choice to teach me this. You only taught because God made you teach). I am very happy to know this God inspired preamble to the Bible. God is working wonders through you Luke!

 

[Don]

EW&F - care to address this one?

Which came first? Light or darkness?

I say light, since God is light.

Light existed before the dark chasm existed which God commanded to give way to light again as the first act of creation.

God is light.
God is eternal.
Light is eternal.

That's my syllogism to prove it.

In him is no darkness at all. Darkness is not eternal.

God had to allow darkness to exist in order for it to exist. God had to withdraw his light from space so that space could be dark before creation. God had a plan for darkness. God willed darkness to be. God caused darkness on purpose.

God had a purpose for darkness.

Now... substitute the word "sin" for darkness and "good" for the word light and I think we will begin to see a picture of God's relationship to evil.

 

[Luke2427]

Luke, you have taught me that God ... makes all his choices for him.

No sir, I have not taught you this.

 

[quantumfaith]

Something interesting:

"God is light..."

Theoretical physics (relativity) tells us that the rate of time passage approaches zero, as the velocity of a particle approaches the speed of light, also, the mass of that particle tends to infinite mass.

Just thought it interesting that "time does not exist" at the speed of light.

 

[Luke2427]

Something interesting:

"God is light..."

Theoretical physics (relativity) tells us that the rate of time passage approaches zero, as the velocity of a particle approaches the speed of light, also, the mass of that particle tends to infinite mass.

Just thought it interesting that "time does not exist" at the speed of light.

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

 

[quantumfaith]

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

Hey Luke,

I am going to save this date in my journal.

 

[Luke2427]

Hey Luke,

I am going to save this date in my journal.

:laugh:
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[Robert Snow]

Let me ask you: Does light CREATE darkness by withdrawing itself from the room?

I don't think this is even possible. If it is, then God isn't omnipresent.

 

[Luke2427]

I don't think this is even possible. If it is, then God isn't omnipresent.

It is not possible for God to withdraw his entire self from any place- you are correct. But it is perfectly possible for God to withdraw certain characteristics of himself from a place.

His shikinah glory, for example, is not shining here in my room- if it were I would die.

God, who is omnipresent has withdrawn his shikinah glory from the earth for his own purposes.

God is able too, to withdraw his goodness.

 

[Robert Snow]

It is not possible for God to withdraw his entire self from any place- you are correct. But it is perfectly possible for God to withdraw certain characteristics of himself from a place.

His shikinah glory, for example, is not shining here in my room- if it were I would die.

God, who is omnipresent has withdrawn his shikinah glory from the earth for his own purposes.

God is able too, to withdraw his goodness.

I agree, but God is still present in some sense.

 

[Luke2427]

I agree, but God is still present in some sense.

Yes
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