Pope calls idea of declaring Mary co-redemptrix ‘foolishness’

[Walpole]

Then please, enlighten us.

You and the other Protestants posting have demonstrated that you have no understanding of what is meant by infallibility. Your concept of infallibility is like that of a faucet, whereby a pope can turn it out, say something, and truth starts pouring out.

The reality, however, is that infallibility is a negative gift, not a positive one. (An important philosophical distinction.) The word itself comes from two Latin words meaning "not to be mistaken." It is thus not a faucet, but rather more like a levy. It prevents the river of truth from overflowing and turning into a swamp. This difference between a river and a swamp is a swamp has no banks. When the Church declares something infallibly, she is stating with certainty what is or is not the faith of the Church.

This is why Protestantism in general is in the mess that is in; for it has no organ, body or mechanism who can define and declare what is or is not the faith of Protestantism. Thus the Protestant version of Christianity is one that is merely subjective religion; meaning each individual Protestant becomes his own determiner (and actual creator) of truth. He / she decides what is or is not the Christian faith for himself. This, of course, is contrary to the religion of the Logos, which is a religion of revelation; whereby man discovers truth and conforms his will to it.

To suggest the Church is not infallible implies Christ left no means to instruct and sanctify the faithful, per His own command. For if the Church is not infallible in her doctrine, then there is no way of knowing what is or is not the faith.

 

[Reformed1689]

You and the other Protestants posting have demonstrated that you have no understanding of what is meant by infallibility. Your concept of infallibility is like that of a faucet, whereby a pope can turn it out, say something, and truth starts pouring out.

The reality, however, is that infallibility is a negative gift, not a positive one. (An important philosophical distinction.) The word itself comes from two Latin words meaning "not to be mistaken." It is thus not a faucet, but rather more like a levy. It prevents the river of truth from overflowing and turning into a swamp. This difference between a river and a swamp is a swamp has no banks. When the Church declares something infallibly, she is stating with certainty what is or is not the faith of the Church.

This is why Protestantism in general is in the mess that is in; for it has no organ, body or mechanism who can define and declare what is or is not the faith of Protestantism. Thus the Protestant version of Christianity is one that is merely subjective religion; meaning each individual Protestant becomes his own determiner (and actual creator) of truth. He / she decides what is or is not the Christian faith for himself. This, of course, is contrary to the religion of the Logos, which is a religion of revelation; whereby man discovers truth and conforms his will to it.

To suggest the Church is not infallible implies Christ left no means to instruct and sanctify the faithful, per His own command. For if the Church is not infallible in her doctrine, then there is no way of knowing what is or is not the faith.

Yep, this is the nonsense I am talking about with papal/church infallibility. Not found anywhere in Scripture. The only infallible source is the Scriptures themselves. The Catholic church is OFTEN in error and preaches a different Gospel than what is found in Scripture.

 

[Reformed1689]

To suggest the Church is not infallible implies Christ left no means to instruct and sanctify the faithful, per His own command. For if the Church is not infallible in her doctrine, then there is no way of knowing what is or is not the faith.

This is the same kind of nonsense brainwashing all cults use.

 

[Walpole]

Yep, this is the nonsense I am talking about with papal/church infallibility. Not found anywhere in Scripture. The only infallible source is the Scriptures themselves. The Catholic church is OFTEN in error and preaches a different Gospel than what is found in Scripture.

Please post the verse from Scripture which says the only infallible source is the Scriptures themselves.

If you can't, you have just made my point and torpedoed your own objection.

 

[Walpole]

This is the same kind of nonsense brainwashing all cults use.

I find that to be the response of those who have no concept of the Church beyond merely a religious Elks Club.

 

[church mouse guy]

Some leftist clergy brought that abomination in. You Baptists got your wackos too.

You mean Rick Warren or Russell Moore or J.D. Greear?

 

[Adonia]

Wrong.

So then we have to assume by that answer that you are admitting here that what you claim the scriptures are actually saying could be wrong? I appreciate your honesty.

 

[Reformed1689]

Please post the verse from Scripture which says the only infallible source is the Scriptures themselves.

If you can't, you have just made my point and torpedoed your own objection.

Actually, in order to make your point you would need to provide Scripture to say anything but Scripture is infallible. Namely, the Church. All Scripture is given by inspiration of God. God cannot make an error, he is perfect. Therefore, His word is also perfect and cannot err.

 

[Adonia]

You and the other Protestants posting have demonstrated that you have no understanding of what is meant by infallibility. Your concept of infallibility is like that of a faucet, whereby a pope can turn it out, say something, and truth starts pouring out.

The reality, however, is that infallibility is a negative gift, not a positive one. (An important philosophical distinction.) The word itself comes from two Latin words meaning "not to be mistaken." It is thus not a faucet, but rather more like a levy. It prevents the river of truth from overflowing and turning into a swamp. This difference between a river and a swamp is a swamp has no banks. When the Church declares something infallibly, she is stating with certainty what is or is not the faith of the Church.

This is why Protestantism in general is in the mess that is in; for it has no organ, body or mechanism who can define and declare what is or is not the faith of Protestantism. Thus the Protestant version of Christianity is one that is merely subjective religion; meaning each individual Protestant becomes his own determiner (and actual creator) of truth. He / she decides what is or is not the Christian faith for himself. This, of course, is contrary to the religion of the Logos, which is a religion of revelation; whereby man discovers truth and conforms his will to it.

To suggest the Church is not infallible implies Christ left no means to instruct and sanctify the faithful, per His own command. For if the Church is not infallible in her doctrine, then there is no way of knowing what is or is not the faith.

You know, I think everyone here has gotten ahead of their skis on what Pope Francis said. He made an observation, he uttered an opinion on a particular subject and his remarks were not "ex-cathedra", i.e. they should not be looked at as a new infallible doctrine of the Catholic Church.

 

[Reformed1689]

You know, I think everyone here has gotten ahead of their skis on what Pope Francis said. He made an observation, he uttered an opinion on a particular subject and his remarks were not "ex-cathedra", i.e. they should not be looked at as a new infallible doctrine of the Catholic Church.

Again, you pick and choose when he is infallible. This is just nonsense.

 

[Walpole]

Actually, in order to make your point you would need to provide Scripture to say anything but Scripture is infallible. Namely, the Church.

Sorry, but you are the one who wrote this:

"The only infallible source is the Scriptures themselves." - You

Unless you can post a verse from Scripture stating this, you contradict and violate it.

All Scripture is given by inspiration of God. God cannot make an error, he is perfect. Therefore, His word is also perfect and cannot err.

ALL Scripture ≠ ONLY Scripture

 

[Walpole]

You know, I think everyone here has gotten ahead of their skis on what Pope Francis said. He made an observation, he uttered an opinion on a particular subject and his remarks were not "ex-cathedra", i.e. they should not be looked at as a new infallible doctrine of the Catholic Church.

Again demonstrating the ignorance of what is understood by infallibility. Some seem to think it is a faucet whereby anything that spews out of the mouth of a pope is deemed infallible.

 

[Adonia]

Again, you pick and choose when he is infallible. This is just nonsense.

No I don't. When the Pope speaks "Ex-cathedra" (infallibly) this is an extensive process. He usually calls a synod with the other Bishops and they then decide together the infallible doctrine. What Francis said here is just like him saying the NY Giants are the best team ever in football, while Pope John Paul II maintained that the Kansa City Chief's were the best ever. It was a personal opinion, one that he would like others to also believe, but not one that is officially binding on the faithful.

 

[utilyan]

Again, you pick and choose when he is infallible. This is just nonsense.

So why are YOU PICKING?

You are your own mini-pope. YOU infallibly decided what books will make up the bible. You added a unbiblical rule of scripture being the final authority. You added tulip tradition, ripped off Calvin.

You also Bind and Loose. You loose all divorces as being nothing wrong and sinless.

 

[church mouse guy]

Is this Pope even a Catholic or is he just a communist politican? He makes it clear that he hates Trump & the USA. He calls Trump King Herod. That would make Pope Francis another Juan Peron.

 

[church mouse guy]

So why are YOU PICKING?

You are your own mini-pope. YOU infallibly decided what books will make up the bible. You added a unbiblical rule of scripture being the final authority. You added tulip tradition, ripped off Calvin.

You also Bind and Loose. You loose all divorces as being nothing wrong and sinless.

The Roman Catholic Church has divorce--it's called annulment & it's for the rich only.

 

[robycop3]

The RCC isn't a bit infallible. It's full of non-Scriptural doctrines & practices, such as mariolatry, indulgences, prayers to the dead, man-made saints, purgatory, offices of pope & cardinal, celibacy for clergy...I could go on & on.

 

[Reformed1689]

Unless you can post a verse from Scripture stating this, you contradict and violate it.

No, this is not true. I provided the reasoning for Scripture to be infallible. However, you have not provided anything that shows the Church and Pope to be infallible. You keep trying to distract instead of handling the issue.

 

[Reformed1689]

So why are YOU PICKING?

You are your own mini-pope. YOU infallibly decided what books will make up the bible. You added a unbiblical rule of scripture being the final authority. You added tulip tradition, ripped off Calvin.

You also Bind and Loose. You loose all divorces as being nothing wrong and sinless.

First, I did not infallibly decide anything nor have I ever claimed such. You are bearing false witness.
How exactly is Sola Scriptura unbiblical?
I didn't add Tulip, and it didn't start with Calvin, you should study some history.

And how do you know what I do or do not believe about divorce? I don't believe I've discussed the topic.

 

[Reformed1689]

When the Pope speaks "Ex-cathedra" (infallibly) this is an extensive process. He usually calls a synod with the other Bishops and they then decide together the infallible doctrine.

No actually it isn't an extensive process and no it does not require a synod with the other Bishops. Have you not read Vatican II? All that is required is that he is teaching or making a proclamation in his capacity of "pastor of all Christians" and it must be evident he is intending to speak with Apostolic authority (something he does not actually have).