KenH
Well-Known Member
I apologize for not understanding your post correctly.
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Pope endorses same-sex civil unions
- Thread starter rlvaughn
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I apologize for not understanding your post correctly.
KenH
Well-Known Member
There was punishment for it in the Law given to ancient Israel.
I quoted the verse. Do you remember what the punishment was? And was it ok for God to tell the Israelites to “cut off” homosexuals?
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Scott Downey
Well-Known Member
We still have the command in Paul's letters to the saints of the church to not fellowship, keep company with, not even to eat with such a one who is sexually immoral. Whom scripture calls an evil person.
I dont understand how any christian can deny the scriptures...
1 Corinthians 5
9 I wrote to you in my epistle not to keep company with sexually immoral people. 10 Yet I certainly did not mean with the sexually immoral people of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world.
11 But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner—not even to eat with such a person.
12 For what have I to do with judging those also who are outside? Do you not judge those who are inside?
13 But those who are outside God judges. Therefore “put away from yourselves the evil person.”
I dont understand how any christian can deny the scriptures...
1 Corinthians 5
9 I wrote to you in my epistle not to keep company with sexually immoral people. 10 Yet I certainly did not mean with the sexually immoral people of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world.
11 But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner—not even to eat with such a person.
12 For what have I to do with judging those also who are outside? Do you not judge those who are inside?
13 But those who are outside God judges. Therefore “put away from yourselves the evil person.”
Scott Downey
Well-Known Member
Paul says in 1 Cor 6, that homosexuals are sexually immoral. So we have the tie in clearly spoken in scripture, in the New Testament for the Church that they will not be inheriting the kingdom of God, which means they are not saved, they are evil people and can even be physically present in the churches, but they are not accepted by God into the Beloved! God does not love them, this is clear, as part of His church of the redeemed, He will send them to HELL.
9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.
Glorify God in Body and Spirit
12 All things are lawful for me, but all things are not helpful. All things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any. 13 Foods for the stomach and the stomach for foods, but God will destroy both it and them.
Now the body is not for sexual immorality but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body. 14 And God both raised up the Lord and will also raise us up by His power.
9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.
Glorify God in Body and Spirit
12 All things are lawful for me, but all things are not helpful. All things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any. 13 Foods for the stomach and the stomach for foods, but God will destroy both it and them.
Now the body is not for sexual immorality but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body. 14 And God both raised up the Lord and will also raise us up by His power.
Scott Downey
Well-Known Member
And not only those, Jesus said this, from the beginning all the way into the church age what is a marriage...
Genesis 2
23 And Adam said:
“This is now bone of my bones
And flesh of my flesh;
She shall be called Woman,
Because she was taken out of Man.”
24 Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.
Matthew 19:4-6
New King James Version
4 And He answered and said to them, “Have you not read that He who made them at the beginning ‘made them male and female,’ 5 and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? 6 So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate.”
Ephesians 5:30-32
New King James Version
30 For we are members of His body, [a]of His flesh and of His bones. 31 “For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.” 32 This is a great mystery, but I speak concerning Christ and the church.
The entire marriage plan by God also is in part the great mystery of the Church as the Bride of Christ, the 2nd Adam, Christ, as her Husband.
To say marriage is something else like between the same sexes is a evil imagination and a demonic doctrine of the devil.
Believing such a thing strikes to the heart of the relationship of God and His people who are in the family of God which makes it a mark of a FALSE TEACHER..
Genesis 2
23 And Adam said:
“This is now bone of my bones
And flesh of my flesh;
She shall be called Woman,
Because she was taken out of Man.”
24 Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.
Matthew 19:4-6
New King James Version
4 And He answered and said to them, “Have you not read that He who made them at the beginning ‘made them male and female,’ 5 and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? 6 So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate.”
Ephesians 5:30-32
New King James Version
30 For we are members of His body, [a]of His flesh and of His bones. 31 “For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.” 32 This is a great mystery, but I speak concerning Christ and the church.
The entire marriage plan by God also is in part the great mystery of the Church as the Bride of Christ, the 2nd Adam, Christ, as her Husband.
To say marriage is something else like between the same sexes is a evil imagination and a demonic doctrine of the devil.
Believing such a thing strikes to the heart of the relationship of God and His people who are in the family of God which makes it a mark of a FALSE TEACHER..
KenH
Well-Known Member
Anything that God says is true. Anything that God does is right. God does not need the approval of His creation.
I agree with your assessment. But then how does that affect our public (not internal to the church) policy positions? If the church is in favor of recognizing civil unions in the public square (not judging those outside), but still rejects them for membership (judging those inside the church), we’re setting them up for never being able to come to faith, at least within the walls of the churches.
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So, then, did something change where it’s ok for the church to recognize as legitimate something that was at one time an abomination to God? If so, then “abomination” seems to lose its impact, if it’s negotiable.
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Scott Downey
Well-Known Member
Scripture tells us not to fellowship with such 'evil' ones who are sexually immoral, including not to share a meal with them. The early church ate (broke bread) and fellowshipped together, (which would include the Lord's Supper), so clearly scripture is saying have nothing to do with them, if the church has accepted them into fellowshipping, they are acting contrary to what God has commanded. And living a godly life in Christ Jesus, you will experience persecution from the unsaved.
God is able to graft them in by allowing them to repent, but God also gives people over to a reprobate mind. Only God can grant repentance to know the truth.
Acts 2
46 So continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, they ate their food with gladness and simplicity of heart, 47 praising God and having favor with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily those who were being saved.
Romans 1:27-29, speaks of the wrath of God against sin.
New King James Version
27 Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting; 29 being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers,
KenH
Well-Known Member
No. Sexual immorality in all forms is never right. True marriage has always been and always will be only between a man and a woman.
Scott Downey
Well-Known Member
Paul gives a long letter of instruction to Timothy and close to the end of the letter says this, those who disagree with the words of Christ are men of corrupt minds destitute of the truth, that means also as Peter said, false teachers will be among you, as in in the church. And we are commanded to withdraw from such people... Schisms arise in churches to show those who are true, (part of their testimony of faithfulness, all is written down in heavenly books by angels) which will happen on judgement Day (to show to all who has the Lord's favor, and spoke rightly of God and who was of the evil one) , if not sooner, but many false teachers continue on and live a long life, even so their doom is certain, only delayed.
3 If anyone teaches otherwise and does not consent to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which accords with godliness, 4 he is proud, knowing nothing, but is obsessed with disputes and arguments over words, from which come envy, strife, reviling, evil suspicions, 5 useless wranglings of men of corrupt minds and destitute of the truth, who suppose that godliness is a means of gain. From such withdraw yourself.
6 Now godliness with contentment is great gain. 7 For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out. 8 And having food and clothing, with these we shall be content. 9 But those who desire to be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and harmful lusts which drown men in destruction and perdition. 10 For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil, for which some have strayed from the faith in their greediness, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.
3 If anyone teaches otherwise and does not consent to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which accords with godliness, 4 he is proud, knowing nothing, but is obsessed with disputes and arguments over words, from which come envy, strife, reviling, evil suspicions, 5 useless wranglings of men of corrupt minds and destitute of the truth, who suppose that godliness is a means of gain. From such withdraw yourself.
6 Now godliness with contentment is great gain. 7 For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out. 8 And having food and clothing, with these we shall be content. 9 But those who desire to be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and harmful lusts which drown men in destruction and perdition. 10 For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil, for which some have strayed from the faith in their greediness, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.
Let’s go back to the verse you quoted.
This divides our response into 2 categories.
1. Believers (“named a brother”) who are being immoral.
2. Unbelievers who are being immoral.
Verse 10 explicitly excludes the unbelievers when it says not even to eat with “such a person” in v.11.
Therefore, we may eat with the immoral unbeliever, but not the immoral believer. To me, that reinforces the necessity of homosexuals to repent when they believe, because if they don’t, then we can’t continue to fellowship with them as they come into the church.
We should, of course, make sure our motives are right for eating with the immoral unbeliever, and not allow ourselves to be tempted to do their evil works with them. That might well preclude some from eating with them.
But I can’t see any warrant for promoting civil unions or homosexual marriage as the pope has done, as it legitimizes abominable activity.
Scott Downey
Well-Known Member
Yes, agree, because as Paul said, otherwise we would have to leave this world. But we are not to fellowship with people who go to church, say they are believers, and then are sexually immoral. Which is what the Pope is promoting.
However we cannot share the communion with unbelievers as they are not joined to Christ, even if they are attending church. And also you don't want sexually immoral people attending your church who practice sexual immorality and approve of it. And people who approve of it and are not sexually immoral themselves are also under condemnation, such people show their conscience is without feeling, there is no conviction from the Holy Spirit working in them that condemns this, and if they dont have the Holy Spirit inside of them, then they are not joined to the Lord as one spirit with Him, so they are also unsaved., even if they claim they are.
Romans 1
32 who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them.
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The Pope, when he talks about family, seems to suggest that homosexuals in civil unions should be allowed to adopt. This wrong and nauseous. Homosexuals should not be given these special considerations because they are a detriment to God's plan to help preserve the human race.
Scott Downey
Well-Known Member
My wife's family are Episcopalians on one side, Morman on the other. The E ones, are fully embracing of homosexual activity in the church. Gay dating couples, Gay married couples with children, can all attend, take communion, fellowship together, with no condemnation of their sins, nothing is ever said, anything else is considered hate speech, they don't even believe it is sinful. Whenever I have pointed any of this out as it really being a sin, as in a bible verse, I will get instantly shutdown, with stuff like, That is simply words attributed to Christ, He never said that, and the early church and scripture writers were all bigots. It really is more of a high class social club to them all. The other one, is Oh so are you going to be like my dad and tell us about bible verses? Who left the episcopal church over the gay bishop stuff. They believe if you're going to church and are a relatively friendly decent person. it does not matter what kind of lifestyle you have, just about anything goes, God loves you and your going to heaven . Abortions OK too, but disliked. You dont even have to believe the bible is important to read and learn from. As it is from so long ago and times have changed. They rely very much on church tradition and practice and very little on scriptures.
Agreed!
That's a shame. My daughter married into a family that seems like they are all into social justice, but don't think we need to take the bible at face value. Her new husband is fairly solid, though still fairly immature.
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