Porn Sunday

Food for thought: It is no arguement that sexually suggestive content is abundant. But let's not belittle the serious issue of pornography by labelling everything that is sexually suggestive as pornographic. We don't need to puff things up to point out the serious nature of it.

[ June 29, 2005, 06:15 PM: Message edited by: Johnv ]

 

Hey superdave, I haven't been on this forum lately...good to meet you!
I was in Detroit tonight at the Tigers game...had a great time.

exscentric, I don't think the question suggests damage to his integrity. A question is a question. I'm sure nobody on here questions his integrity nor yours.

 

Agree or disagree with the methods of xxxchurch, at least they are addressing an issue the church has been scared silly to be real about.

Pornography has flooded my generation to an extent that would shock most of you. We are the first generation that has had pornography at our finger tips the moment we hit puberty. I'm positive I could go online and find porn within 60 seconds...even with NetNanny or some sort of porn block. I go to Cedarville University, and I would bet that well over 75% of the guys there are or have struggled with pornography. Think about that! 75% of the best young (male) minds in Christianity have been infected with this plague. These are the future leaders of the church, and the current leaders of the church have done nothing to curb the problem.

Don't diss xxxchurch until you have a better solution...and are willing to carry out that solution across America. And no, turning off the TV and internet isn't a better solution, that simply delays the problem enough for you to feel absolved of your duty.

 

JonathanDT,
I agree that they are addressing an issue that many have ignored, and being from the same generation, I think that the current leadership in many churches has put their head in the sand on this one, and may live to regret their oversight.

If Cedarville is anything like many other Christian colleges and universities, they have recognized this is a huge problem, and several have started contracts to audit web access and email, not just relying on filters. I suppose that is something. If churches aren't going to deal with it, than the dean's offices of the schools will have to.

I would not diss xxxchurch for their mission, its a noble one. I would however question the validity of their methods, and the lack of a clear doctrinal stance. It is a common belief in the modern church that you have to resemble that which you are trying to reach, and that philosophy is clearly foundational to the ministry of xxxchurch. That philosophy is something that I do not think is necessary or wise in most cases. I think a frank discussion of the issues is a good start, and the willingness of a church to commit to accountability programs that allow for me to mutually help each other. I do not think the answer is a para-church org that deals with the industry, but local churches that are willing to confront sin, and foster environments that support those who are struggling, and allow for open and honest discussion without judgemental phariseeism for those who are willing to be honest. The problem is a universal one, something many would like to pretend is not the case. But for true long-term effective accountability, a group like xxchurch is only the beginning for someone who is struggling, without a local church to support them and provide accountability, it is not enough, any more than net nanny is enoungh to keep college students away from porn.

 

Let me see if I can remove the foot that seems to be in my mouth, even though I didn't mean to put it there.

superdave said: For Example: is the Swimsuit Issue pornographic? how about Music Videos, Grand Theft Auto? How much filth does it take to damage your integrity?

Exscentric replied: Don't mean to speak for the class but some would suggest that your question suggests damage to your integrity. To think these aren't damaging your character indicates it may be

Superdave replied: My questions were in reference to the quote by King James, and were not questions that I struggle with at all. I happen to think that they represent as much lack of integrity as all out porn.

King James posted: exscentric, I don't think the question suggests damage to his integrity. A question is a question. I'm sure nobody on here questions his integrity nor yours.

1. Note the smily face - refers to humor, lightness, not accusation.

2. My point was that people that feel swimsuit issue etc. are porn, would suggest that if you question whether it is porn or not means it has probably affected your character already. In other words if you don't feel it is porn then your character is the lessor.

3. Don't think anyone was attacking anyone's character.

Sorry for the lack of clarity.

 

Pornography is as addicting as drugs and too many christians are "getting away with it" because:

1. they think it's not hurting anyone, so it's ok

2. they aren't actually engaging in premarital sex or adultery. so it's ok

3. Pastors fail to talk about it because it's an uncomfortable issue (is he afraid of offending the many tithers who take part in pornography?...is he afraid to talk about something he can't gain control of himself?...Only God can answer those questions)

4. pornography is easily accessible and easy to hide, with no "cookie crumbs" left on their face (but it IS left on their computers). Who was it that said "true character is what you do when nobody is looking"? If a Christian has to quickly close the page he's viewing, it's a good indication he shouldn't be there.

5. We, as Christians, have failed in this area. We've let the ads creep up on us because "showing a woman in a bra isn't pornography". Do you realize how far things went downhill since they first showed the "cross-your-heart" model wearing the product? I was an ADULT when they started this and now I can't turn on the tv for long without seeing something repulsive. Many of us spoke up before the ad first aired...but I'm guessing there were a lot more Christians who preferred this ad and kept quiet about it.

Come on, y'all! Have you forgotten about Janet Jackson already? She knew what she was doing. My daughter believes she did it because Michael was getting too much attention and she wanted the spotlight...that the X minute spot on the superbowl stage was not enough. She may be right.

One good thing that came of that incident was all the people who spoke up against that. It was a shock and people reacted. But, Janet got a lot of publicity and probably all the attention she craved, also.

I'M SICK AND TIRED OF HAVING TO TURN MAGAZINES AROUND IN THE STORES!!! Even when I do, the backs are now just as bad....so I have to find a magazine that isn't bad, yet isn't a child's magazine to place them behind. I'm SO tempted to rip the pages off the magazine covers and taking them torn up to the manager. if I have to stand before a judge because of it, so be it. I'll pay the fines, but I hope the press is there to film it.

I've written letters to stores, libraries (while I was there, some perv decided to print a nude from a website and it came out in front of a child...AND in another instance, a nude cover was displayed at child-eye view when they had a special kids-craft day). I've written to ad agencies threatening to bar my family from buying their products. But I'm just one person and the recepients of these letters have a good laugh and then pen me a letter telling me what they think I want to hear.

But as long as our christian men (and women) remain wimps (I said it...if they aren't strong enough to control themselves and stand up for what's right then they are wimps), then we are going to see things get worse. The christian wimps silently stand back, chew their nails and hope nobody speaks up.

Meanwhile, many women are being raped because the rapists are looking for "harder drugs" and children are being kidnapped and molested. I'll be honest...I think it's wrong to show naked babies on diaper commercials. Wouldn't that be fuel for a pedophile's addiction?

If we fail to speak up against these ads, movies, video games, web sites, magazines..then the blood of the rapists, molesters, and murders victims are on our hands as well. I really believe that. No, we did not take part in the crime, but we look the other way. Shame on all of us!

 

Excellent post VIJ!

Things are put into commercials today that were only whispered about, behind closed doors, years ago.

TMI!!!!

Yes, I can turn the TV off. But do you think the unsaved do that? Do you think the ones struggling with porn addiction do that? Do you think the pedophiles do that?

NO!

I think it's appalling and I boycott frequently!

I don't need to see which 'pad' absorbs the most moisture.

I don't need to see which 'pill' for pleasure lasts the longest.

I don't need to hear, "you can't outlove your underwear".

I don't need to hear, "I gotta go, gotta go right now".

I don't need to hear, "You bet your sweet Aspercreme".

I don't need to see how good the 'patch' works while being worn by an almost naked woman.

I don't need to know what my neigbors take when he is constipated or she has a yeast infection.

I keep the remote control at hand when my grandson watches TV. Most of the commercials get blocked out. They are getting worse than the programs themselves!

Just my



§ue

 

Yep!!
Not only the commercials on TV!! You can't even walk into Walmart without seeing the picture of the woman in her underwear from halfway across the store directing you to the lingerie dept. How about a written sign with an arrow saying "Lingerie" ? I've complained to the Walmart people.....no results. :-(

 

"Porn Sunday" hit our city several months ago. It was sponsored by a new-age church that is more interested in their member's income and tithing then anything else.
We had suggestive billboards, and newspaper ads, and you should have seen the reaction. For every 2 people who supported it there were about 10 who didn't, however; this "church" was very pleased with the community reaction. I guess they feel that even negative attention is still attention.

 

No disrespect to your grandmother, but I just returned from a vacation in Hawaii. Lots of people wearing very little, including, at times, myself. It's the first time in my life I walked around on a street without my shirt off, and felt comfortable.

The whole week I was there, the only time a sexual thought entered my mind was in my hotel room with my wife present.

I think the reason we Americans have a problem with pronography is not because of what people wear, but because we have been told it's okay to go ape every time we see any bit of flesh.

As for xxxchurch, I don't agree with some of their methods, but, upon serious perousal of their site, I think their endeavours are genuine and worthy. XXXchurch exists to bring awareness, openness, accountability and recovery to the church, society and individuals in the issues of pornography and to begin to provide solutions through non-judgmental and creative means. For example, on the issue of teens and porn, they say "We tell them to stay away from crack and not to drink too much, but how come no one is letting them know that Porn Boulevard is a dead end." Their ministry goes into the sinners' den to address the issue of porn, not unlike the way that Jesus ate with the sinners to address them. I, honestly, don't know if I have the courage to do that: go to where the porn industry meets to address the issue of porn. Wow.

 

Tell people at church Sunday that you're a drug addict, and they'll pray for you and suggest rehab and so forth. Tell them you are a recovered drug addict and they'll shout from the light fixtures. Tell them EITHER you're addicted to pornography or recovered from the addiction, and you'll be villified and shunned as an evil monster.

It's high time we do something about this nuclear weapon in Satan's aresenal. First is we get Godly about dealing with it and stop being so inconsistent about addictions.

 

I'm so thankful that's not true in my church.

We pray for them to get victory over pornography just as we would any other sin.

We also put 'feet' to our prayers by having "Reformers Unanimous" in our church and someone is always available to help anyone, anytime they need it.

 

Nor is it true in mine. However, what Tom speaks of, I have seen in many, many churches.

 

i read a book somewhere, that said something of this sort....

Looking at porn produces a chemical in the brain (not talking about dopamine though) that will (in the future) actually cause you to loosew the ability to love your wife. talked to a couple of porn lookers, and i bet thier 3 ex wives each would agree.


i think the prevalence of porn is horrible, i agree that it is becoming ever increasingly difficult to take my family anywhere. if the porn is not visible, it can be heard on the mouths of the people walking (siting in the next booth at dinner also) in front or behind us.

now my dad comes from the "old school" and was for a time a pro body builder (and yes his biceps were 22 INCHES...i said yes sir alot). when my wife and i were first married (before salvation, while still serving in the army) my parents took us out to dinner. the couples in the next booth were LOUDLY expressing their plans for a sexual trist later on that night, complete with all acts to be performed. they used the most vial language you could imagine. now this mad my dad angry (not so much me as i was not saved, and living as unrighteously as i could), he got up, and to make a long story short, and "took care of the problem". He even had two wimpering GROWN MEN return to our table to apologize. my dad calls himself a proud redneck.


He is a redneck in the order of Charlie Daniels, What This World Needs is a Few More Rednecks.

if you haven't heard that song, find it and listen to it, i think it's close to the truth

thankyou and God Bless

 

"i read a book somewhere, that said something of this sort....

Looking at porn produces a chemical in the brain (not talking about dopamine though) that will (in the future) actually cause you to loosew the ability to love your wife."


You're talking about epinephrine. The memory of the images of pornography can be burned into the brain just like the memory of the feelings of crack can be burned into the brains of a crack addict.

Drug addicts become desensitized to the drug of choice...what they take isn't good enough for them any more, so they have to move up to a higher dose or harder drug to get the feelings they initially got with the drug they started with. They will eventually use up their paychecks...steal and sell their family's belongings...lose their jobs...risk their health...ignore their "loved one's" pleas...disregard the moral standards they were raised on...and live in a cardboard box to get the high their brain remembrs. Why do you think there are so many drug-related robberies, fights and deaths? Why do you think there are so many repeat offenders? Why do thou think drugs are so expensive?

Pornography does the same thing. Their wives aren't important to them any more. The images they see on the screen are more important to them than their own wives. The wives are left feeling like there is someone else (and there is...even if she's 2-demensional) and that she isn't worth anything any more (she isn't...not to him).


"What This World Needs is a Few More Rednecks"

What this world needs is a LOT more people like your Dad...redneck or not.

""No disrespect to your grandmother, but I just returned from a vacation in Hawaii. Lots of people wearing very little, including, at times, myself. It's the first time in my life I walked around on a street without my shirt off, and felt comfortable.

The whole week I was there, the only time a sexual thought entered my mind was in my hotel room with my wife present. ""

No disrespect to you, John, but pornography doesn't just effect those who are effected. I don't feel a thing when I see a scantly-clothed woman (then again, I AM a woman). But, I feel it's every Christian's duty to try to get this stuff out of public view. Where I live, there are three sex offenders living within a three block area from me right now who are in the National Sex Offender's Registry (You only need to type in your zip code, then click on "I agree" and then select your state...this is not updated, so your state may not be available yet). We have kids running all around the streets who are unaware of these creeps. I made a newsletter, and mailed them out to everyone in our neighborhood explaining the dangers of talking to strangers. I didn't name the offenders, but they got the newsletter.

So this isn't just about Christian men getting a little excitement from the web and magazines. It's about the lives of children, which are lost every day (either by molestation and/or murder).

People, please bookmark the link and pass it on to your friends. Even if your state isn't included now, it will be.

"Tell people at church Sunday that you're a drug addict, and they'll pray for you and suggest rehab and so forth. Tell them you are a recovered drug addict and they'll shout from the light fixtures. Tell them EITHER you're addicted to pornography or recovered from the addiction, and you'll be villified and shunned as an evil monster."

The churches I've been member of shunned drug addicts, too. I'm not sure about my current church...I haven't heard about anyone with either problem that we're praying for.

We shouldn't shun the people with addictions...by shunning them, we're ignoring the problem. That'd be like shunning visitors who wear jeans to church (and I've seen that happen).

But, why can't our churches have addict programs for sex addicts? Why can't the churches hold revivals for men (or adults) only? Perhaps hold a "jr church" type of program for the kids while the adults are in the auditorium?

[ July 28, 2005, 12:10 PM: Message edited by: Victory in Jesus ]

 

Good question. Why isn't the church addressing this very important issue? Besides just saying it's wrong, don't do it?? I'm sure there are men in every church with this problem, and women too.

 

The Reformers Unanimous group our church hosts addresses ALL kinds of addictions.

Addictions are addictions and we don't make a difference in what they are. You get over most of them pretty much the same way.

Sex offenders need someone they can confide in and trust to help them, and be accountable to - not condemn them.

If a sex offender is in the registry - he has already paid his debt to society.

Sadly, society (and Christians) don't accept that and want them to pay forever.

VIJ: Have you tried witnessing to any of these "creeps"? I think not. You'll never show them God's love with that attitude...

By all means protect your children, but these "creeps" are human beings with souls and God loves them every bit as much as He loves you.

These "creeps" are someone's son, brother, father, uncle, grandfather, cousin, nephew, or friend - and they are loved.

Do they deserve to go to Hell? Of course! Just like you and I deserve to go to Hell. I'm so thankful our God is a God of second chances.

 

I don't disagree. What I disagree with is the labeling of the benign as pornography. Every woman in a two piece bathing suit should not be labeled pornography. That actually belittles the seriousness of the issue.

Again, I don't disagree. I'll be happy to assist in removing sexually graphic material from casual public view. However, to smack a "pornography" label on hula dancers at a Luau in Maui is not only a false judgement, it's unrighteous.

Again, no disagreement. But the way you combat a compulsive speeder is not to remove the roads. The way to combat an alcoholic is not to close all the pubs. The way to combat sex offenders is not to force women to "cover-up". A compulsive speeder must learn to obey the speed laws. An alcoholic must learn to stay away from alcohol, and a sex offender must learn to control his impulses.

BTW, I'm sure you alredy know this, but for those who don't: Just because a person is on the registered sex offender registry, doesn't mean they're, say, a child molester. A person who rapes and abuses will be on the registery, as will statutory rapists (sex with a consenting minor) and pedophiles. Rapists typically seek out adult victims of the opposite sex, and do not seek out children. OTOH, pedophiles typically (but not always) seek out children of the same sex, and do not seek out adults as victims.

I agree wholeheartedly that we shouldn't shun persons with addictions. As for the jeans, I'd be one of the folks shunned nearly every Sunday.

 

"VIJ: Have you tried witnessing to any of these "creeps"? I think not. You'll never show them God's love with that attitude..."

No, and I wouldn't...not alone...and not with another woman. You may not agree with me, but I don't believe they've paid their debt to society until they've been given the injection. I know it sounds "cruel and inhumane" to many, but so does tying up a woman or child, molesting them over and over, torturing them and killing them to gain some pleasurable feeling in a certain part of their body...and THEN repeating the same offenses every time they get released into society. No one can make me change my mind on this issue.

Little girls shouldn't have to spend the rest of their lives waking in drenched sheets from sweat after having nightmares every night...wondering what they did wrong when all they did was help a man look for his dog...wanting to kill themselves because they can't bear the intolerable pain that certain noises, smells, tastes, feelings, sounds, sights cause to conjure up memories of being tied down and forced to do what they didn't even understand was happening to them and why...wanting to get the memories out of their heads and realizing the only way they can think it would happen is if they took their own lives. THESE MEN ruin lives even if their pulse is spared and they deserve to die...

I believe in "an eye for an eye".

"What I disagree with is the labeling of the benign as pornography. Every woman in a two piece bathing suit should not be labeled pornography. That actually belittles the seriousness of the issue. "

You've already said scantly-dressed women don't effect you. I won't comment on that. But molesters DO get effected by that. Women get raped wearing more than that. Yeah, yeah, I know it's not the woman's fault that a woman get's raped, but she CAN choose to wear more to prevent that from happening. It's funny...parents are so cautious about letting their teenage girl walk down a drug alley in the middle of the night with a purse full of money, yet think nothing of letting them roam around on a beach with parts hanging out. They even inspect the boys they date and how soon they come home, but let them run around almost naked on a beach. Then when they get raped, they blame everything on the rapist (and it IS his fault...if he's a repeat offender, it's the judge's fault...or whoever let him out). But I have to blame society to some degree for giving kids and women the illusion that it's harmless to wear a bathing suit...that it's harmless for women to flirt IN a bathing suit. They have you fooled, John...they have a lot of people fooled.

But they don't have me fooled.


"But the way you combat a compulsive speeder is not to remove the roads. The way to combat an alcoholic is not to close all the pubs. The way to combat sex offenders is not to force women to "cover-up". A compulsive speeder must learn to obey the speed laws. An alcoholic must learn to stay away from alcohol, and a sex offender must learn to control his impulses. "

You combat a compulsive speeder by adjusting the speed limit in that area.

You combat an alcoholic by setting limits on the breath test.

You want to know what's funny? This is hilarious:

One day I took my dog (female) for a walk. By the time I got home, about 50 dogs were in my yard. I called the dog pound and asked if they could remove the scary dogs from my yard. She asked a few questions:

"Are the dogs in your yard male?" Yes.

"Is your dog female?" Yes...How'd you know?

"Is your dog in heat?" Actually, I think she might be.

"Then, if we come to remove the dogs, we will. But we will have to fine you for taking your dog a walk while in heat." But it's against the law to have a roaming dog unleashed.

"Yes, ma'am, you're absolutely right. By law, the dogs should be on leashes or confined to their yard. But it's against the law to lure a dog from its yard with a female dog in heat, which is what you did. I'd have to fine you per incident. At this point, I would hang up and stay inside until the owners collected their dogs, if I were you. You're looking at a big fine."

We should take lessons from the dog pound.

It's not against the law to carry money, either, but who's fault is it if you walk down the street waving money in the air and then get beaten up and robbed? Better yet, strap hundreds all over your body and see how far you get...then try to explain to the cops it wasn't your fault...

My goodness!!! When did American lose their common sense?

 

VIJ: It sounds like this is a subject you cannot be objective about.

As Johnv stated, not all people on the sex offender registry did something to a child.

For a Christian, you are very vehement about killing these people. You won't even witness to them. Isn't that our purpose in life?

Jesus came to heal the sick and brokenhearted, not the ones who do not need a physician...

And "an eye for an eye" does not mean what you are taking it to mean. In other words, if a man knocks out one of your teeth, you cannot knock all of his out. This is a limiting verse, not a permissive one...

What about going the extra mile, as Jesus told us to do?