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Portrait of a Worship Leader

Discussion in 'Music Ministry' started by Joshua Rhodes, Dec 24, 2007.

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  1. yahoshea

    yahoshea New Member

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    This is of course is circular reasoning. It is based on facts not in evidence. those being that women do not belong in leadership positions.
     
    #21 yahoshea, Dec 28, 2007
  2. Sopranette

    Sopranette New Member

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    No, that would be scriptual. Women are not to take leadership roles in church, although they can instruct.

    love,

    Sopranette
     
    #22 Sopranette, Dec 28, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 28, 2007
  3. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
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    Saying talent is not necessary is slightly off. If a pastor does not have the gift of speaking well (preaching, teaching, etc.), he won't be much of a pastor. Of course, God could make the donkey speak but He WILL use our giftings that He's given us.

    We've been to a church where the "worship leader" - actually, the woman who played the organ - was HORRIBLE. She came in as a sub while we were looking for a new organist. It was tough for me to enter into worship because the WRONG NOTES WERE PLAYED and the TEMPO CHANGED!!! Now, I'm not even remotely trained in music but even I could tell this was wrong. My entire focus was on what she was doing. For my husband, who is a highly trained musician, it made it that he just couldn't even be in there. It honestly was not a joyful noise but a noise. Now, understand that I've been around children who sing off key and can't keep a rhythm. I've been around the disabled who scream when they sing. I know that is the joyful noise that they have to offer and but they're not up there leading the congregation. Hiring this woman made the final straw that made us leave that church and begin attending the one we have.

    I know my husband's prayer each week is that God would make him and his music team - and all the instruments and everything - transparent. That it would not be the focus of the worship or even the attention but that they could play where they would not draw attention to themselves but to the Lord. I don't think you can do that with no talent at all in the musical field.
     
    #23 annsni, Dec 28, 2007
  4. yahoshea

    yahoshea New Member

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    Please show me your scriptural proof and include the principles by which you interpeted those verses.
     
    #24 yahoshea, Dec 28, 2007
  5. Sopranette

    Sopranette New Member

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    1 Corinthians 14:34
    Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
    And if they will learn anything, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in church.

    Then it says something about how Eve led Adam astray, so shall women do the same without the guidance of men, specifically men in authority, but I can't find where at this moment.

    I have never spoken in church, not one word, but I have sung. Big difference.

    love,

    Sopranette
     
    #25 Sopranette, Dec 28, 2007
  6. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
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    You've never greeted anyone? Never prayed?? Wow!
     
    #26 annsni, Dec 28, 2007
  7. Sopranette

    Sopranette New Member

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    I've greeted people,smiled even. I've silently prayed. Other than that, I've never said one singal thing that refers to scriptur. That is correct, yes!

    love,

    Sopranette
     
    #27 Sopranette, Dec 28, 2007
  8. yahoshea

    yahoshea New Member

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    Do you understand the context of this verse and the historical influence of this context?

    33for God is not a God of confusion but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints.
    34The women are to keep silent in the churches; for they are not permitted to speak, but are to subject themselves, just as the Law also says.
    35If they desire to learn anything, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is improper for a woman to speak in church.

    1 Cor 14 context is about edification and order in the church services. The historical impact is that the church of Corinth carried out the Hebrew tradition of women and men sitting on either side of the church. Women were shouting out questions to their husbands. Paul knew this was disrupting the service and told them to wait till they got home for their questions.

    The term “subject” is often improperly interpreted as submit. The word means to give honor not obedience in the strict concept. Women ere to give honor to what God was bringing and not interrupt. Just as Paul also corrected men about causing disruption in the services.

    You have sung but not spoke? Isn't that like straining a gnat and swallowing a camel? What is singing except speaking to a beat. Songs teach doctrine, exhort, convict, correct and praise. Not a big difference at all. Seems like a lot of silly legalism to me.
     
    #28 yahoshea, Dec 28, 2007
  9. yahoshea

    yahoshea New Member

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    Do yu wear a scarf over your head and refuse to wear pants too?

    Starting to sound like the rules of the Taliban
     
    #29 yahoshea, Dec 28, 2007
  10. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
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    You've never spoken to another woman about Scripture? You've never spoken to your pastor about Scripture? You've never quoted Scripture? How about praying for a sister or brother in church? Where does that verse say that it's only things that refer to Scripture?
     
    #30 annsni, Dec 28, 2007
  11. Sopranette

    Sopranette New Member

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    You can all come down on me if you so desire. I don't care. It says what it says, and it is what it is. And so, I obey. The Taliban treats women like dogs, which I have never experienced.

    love,

    Sopranette

    btw-singing is not speaking out. It is putting to music some of the most eloquent words I have ever come across, better than I could ever put to paper, that's for sure. Speaking out is saying what's on one's mind, strictly forbidden for women in the NT. And yes, if you ever saw me, I look like something from times past.
     
    #31 Sopranette, Dec 28, 2007
  12. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
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    So then would it be OK for you to read something in church? That's not your own words. Would it be OK for you to read Scripture?

    The Bible doesn't say "don't speak out" or "don't say what's on your mind" - that's putting words into the Bible that are not there.
     
    #32 annsni, Dec 28, 2007
  13. Sopranette

    Sopranette New Member

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    Of course it would be okay to read Scripture in church....duh! Those words are not my own, and I would run it by my Pastor beforehand, as well.

    I have come to the conclusion women shouldn't speak out in church after reading several verses in the Bible. It's just not a good idea, according to what I've read. That's the way it is for me. Do what you see fit in your own life.

    love,

    Sopranette
     
    #33 Sopranette, Dec 28, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 28, 2007
  14. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
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    However, you said:

    "I have never spoken in church, not one word"
     
    #34 annsni, Dec 28, 2007
  15. Sopranette

    Sopranette New Member

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    And that is still true.

    love,

    Sopranette
     
    #35 Sopranette, Dec 28, 2007
  16. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
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    speak: To utter words or articulate sounds with ordinary speech modulation; talk. (from the American Heritage Dictionary on www.dictionary.com)
     
    #36 annsni, Dec 28, 2007
  17. yahoshea

    yahoshea New Member

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    I find that very sad. You seem an intelegent woman able to recieve good truth from God on your own. You are well spoken which means that you could have good things to share with the body of Christ. Those that keep you in silence deny the body that blessing. Especially when the scriptures used to teach this false doctrine are misquoted and missunderstood.
     
    #37 yahoshea, Dec 28, 2007
  18. Sopranette

    Sopranette New Member

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    The dictionary is not the most accurate way to define spiritual principles.

    love,

    Sopranette
     
    #38 Sopranette, Dec 28, 2007
  19. Sopranette

    Sopranette New Member

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    Thank you, but if I were to ever preach inaccurate doctrine, the ramifications could lead someone astray for a very long time, if not forever. I just have to trust God when He says for me to remain silent in church. I would rather remain silent, than to speak something that would cause someone to leave the church. Good intentions are not enough. I did also say women could instruct, I'm just not qualified to do so in most cases. There are other more well versed women than me who can do this with great skill.

    love,

    Sopranette
     
    #39 Sopranette, Dec 28, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 28, 2007
  20. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
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    No - but it's the most accurate way to define English.

    I agree that women should not be in authority over men or teaching men in the sanctuary (and teaching them outside the sanctuary needs to be careful). However, I don't agree that singing is different from speaking. Both are communicating words and thoughts. Also, not speaking on anything Scriptural in the church is wrong too, IMO. I would hope that I could communicate spiritual truths to both my brothers and sisters in whatever venue I'm in.
     
    #40 annsni, Dec 28, 2007
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