Position on Abortion

[Twizzler]

In other words, you just said, "I'm NOT making excuses for them! [insert excuse here]."

I am merely acknowledging that they may be wrong in their conclusions. That doesn't mean that they are pure evil. It simply means they are WRONG.

So let me get this straight. Rev says the Holy Ghost would never let a Christian believe that voting for Obama was not supporting abortion. I believe that just because one voted for Obama doesn't mean that they support (read 'are in favor of') abortion. Therefore I must draw the conclusion that either Rev is wrong about the Holy Ghost or else the Holy Ghost is overlooking me because I am not a christian.

And don't give me any trouble on my definition of 'support' because if you want to read it in your figurative context then we're all guilty of 'supporting' abortion because we all pay taxes, whether it is a biblical ideal or not.

 

[KenH]

How about this question: Can a Christian be wrong about something but not be evil?

I believe that a Christian can be wrong about something without being evil.

 

[Revmitchell]

I am merely acknowledging that they may be wrong in their conclusions. That doesn't mean that they are pure evil. It simply means they are WRONG.

Supporting abortion in any manner is pure evil

So let me get this straight. Rev says the Holy Ghost would never let a Christian believe that voting for Obama was not supporting abortion.

If you are going to attempt to quote me then quote me but falsely paraphrasing my words is inappropriate.

I believe that just because one voted for Obama doesn't mean that they support (read 'are in favor of') abortion.

Apparently you are not paying attention to what is being said. When you vote for any politician who supports abortion, dem, repub, indep, whomever, and you know about it in advance then you have supported all of his agenda. Even those you disagree with. In the case of abortion some have decided that whatever obama does with abortion is worth it because of other things. In other words sacrificing unborn children is an acceptable compromise because of (add what you want here). That is still support whether you want to support abortion or not.

However, those on this board who voted for Obama typically see nothing wrong with abortion. Again, pure evil and nothing else. You are trying to defend views of those on this board with little time engaging them. We have been here quite a while and know more about them than you do. It would serve you well to wait a while longer before trying to represent them so you actually know what you are talking about.

Therefore I must draw the conclusion that either Rev is wrong about the Holy Ghost or else the Holy Ghost is overlooking me because I am not a christian.

And don't give me any trouble on my definition of 'support' because if you want to read it in your figurative context then we're all guilty of 'supporting' abortion because we all pay taxes, whether it is a biblical ideal or not.[/QUOTE]

 

[alatide]

Do you mean this Christ:



Those who pose as Christians but support the slaughter of unborn children. That is what we are talking about here and your support of it is disgusting. You supported it with you vote choosing other concerns over children. This should never be under any circumstances.But liberals are to tied up with the Democrat party. You ave placed politics over your faith and children. There is no room to just simply disagree over abortion. The lives of children are at stake. Apparently you do not care.

I worship the living Christ, my Lord and Savior. Why would a "minister" worship the devil?

 

[matt wade]

I worship the living Christ, my Lord and Savior. Why would a "minister" worship the devil?

Does Christ convict you of lying about your identity on this board and breaking the rules by coming back multiple times after being banned? I know that if I did such things that Christ would convict me of them. Once the Holy Spirit is dwelling within you, those sort of deceptive behaviors become convicting. It would be a shame if you weren't convicted of your deceptive behavior.

 

[matt wade]

I am merely acknowledging that they may be wrong in their conclusions. That doesn't mean that they are pure evil. It simply means they are WRONG.

Are they wrong in their conclusions? Yes! I'm glad you can acknowledge that. Now you need to understand that if they are wrong, that doesn't lift the responsibility of their actions. They are still responsible for supporting abortion.

Of course, you still don't get it that electing a politician that promotes abortion IS supporting abortion.

 

[alatide]

I admire your zeal, Rev and totally agree with your stance on the matter of abortion. But I would go so far as to say that your unwillingness to even entertain the idea that someone else may be able to accept the idea of abortion as NOT being murder is what's causing us to stub our toe here. The left sees ALL of us conservatives as stubborn and unwilling to enter into any kind of discussion about the issues because we're (read you) continue to simply point at them and say they are evil, even those that abhor abortion but happened to vote for Obama. My arguement about paying taxes is another way of supporting abortion was just dismissed because we are to 'render unto Caesar what is Casesar's' (it's a godly principle to pay our taxes), but there are many ways to get out from paying your taxes, you just refuse to take the needed steps.

The left sees you as a curmudgeonly, bible-thumper that refuses to enter into any type of rational discussion on the matter and that damns you in their eyes. It gives them fodder to use against the entire conservative party. It doesn't matter whether you believe what they are saying is true or not, THEY believe it and THEY love to use people like you as a poster boy to support their point that we just cannot stand on our own.

You can be against something and think it's a horrible sin without lambasting everyone who is mistakenly supporting it. We need to speak to them in a loving manner and draw them closer to Christ. Only THEN will a pro-choice supporter see what they are doing is wrong. If we keep arguing with them the way you do, they'll just continue to harden their hearts and it will just be harder and harder to reach them.

We (Christians) have judged and judged and judged and now we are being judged and we don't like it. That's the message that we're passing on to the liberals right now and they're running to town with it.

Christians typically have a common world view. They may differ on minor items like politics but share the view that what the world needs is Jesus Christ not a Republican president. The Christian Right has subverted the message of the gospel to make it a political statement. It was never intended to be used that way and those who have done so will pay dearly for their crime against God.

 

[Twizzler]

I'm reading the book THE HOLE IN OUR GOSPEL, by Richard Stearns and came across a passage that sums up my feelings exactly. I'd like to share it with you...

Christianity is a faith that was meant to spread - but not through coercion. God's love was intended to be demonstrated, not dictated. Our job is not to manipulate or induce others to agree with us or to leave their religion and embrace Christianity. Our charge is to both proclaim and embody the gospel so that others can see, hear, and feel God's love in tangible ways. When we are living out our faith with integrity and compassion in the world, God can use us to give others a glimpse of His love and character. It is God - not us - who works in the hearts of men and women to forgive and redeem. Coercion is not necessary or even particularly helpful. God is responsible for the harvest - but we must plant, water, and cultivate the seeds.

 

[Twizzler]

Supporting abortion in any manner is pure evil

So... to play devil's-advocate here (figuratively speaking of course), would it be possible for a doctor that performs abortions to be a born-again Christian? I may be wrong, but I understand your words to say that they cannot possibly be. Please correct me if I am wrong.

If you are going to attempt to quote me then quote me but falsely paraphrasing my words is inappropriate.

Please show me how I falsely paraphrased your words, Rev. I even asked prior to my statement 'let me get this straight', didn't I? I'm trying to understand your point completely, to repeat what you're saying in words that make sense to me.

 

[Twizzler]

The Christian Right has subverted the message of the gospel to make it a political statement. It was never intended to be used that way and those who have done so will pay dearly for their crime against God.

Now hold on here, Alatide... I consider myself a very conservative person (read RIGHT) and I know that I am a Christian... so that would make me part of the Christian Right, a post which I am glad to claim. (Most of the time). I would agree with you that SOME on the right are subverting the gospel for their own political gain, or for their party's gain, but PLEASE, do not blanket us all into your group of radicals. You're just as guilty of causing problems as those radical right-wingers by doing this.

 

[Twizzler]

So let me get this straight. Rev says the Holy Ghost would never let a Christian believe that voting for Obama was not supporting abortion.

If you are going to attempt to quote me then quote me but falsely paraphrasing my words is inappropriate.

Here are your exact words…

There is no way the Holy Ghost would let that stand in a Christians heart. No absolute way.Babies are being ripped apart limb by limb. Do you get that? Who in their right mind cannot understand that? Libbies support a President who voted against the born alive act which would protect children who have survived abortion. Instead Obama would leave babies to die in a linen closet uncared for. Do you get that? They come on this board and claim to be Christians but will accept that treatment of other human beings even though they claim not to support abortion, do you get that?

… and here are mine…

So let me get this straight. Rev says the Holy Ghost would never let a Christian believe that voting for Obama was not supporting abortion. I believe that just because one voted for Obama doesn't mean that they support (read 'are in favor of') abortion. Therefore I must draw the conclusion that either Rev is wrong about the Holy Ghost or else the Holy Ghost is overlooking me because I am not a christian.

I am asking a question here as evidenced by my preface ‘So let me get this straight.’ I apologize if it didn’t come across that way, but that’s the way I understand your words, Rev. If I’m misunderstanding what you say, please correct me rather than simply editing my entire paragraph to make it look like I’m paraphrasing you incorrectly, which I absolutely don’t think I did. I think my conclusions are sound based on your initial post.
I also posted this earlier in the thread…

No. I really don't think you can see that and I really think you'll only respond back by trying to beat me over the head with what your idea of what a christian should think is and how there's no way the Holy Ghost would let a christian act that way or be misled.

I feel I hit the nail on the head with that so far. Please stop ignoring any other questions I pose on the matter such as…

...and what should we do about this, Rev? Exactly how far should we go in our war? I am lifting the whole matter up to the Lord daily, asking him to speak to our leaders and to impress upon them the right thing to do, the right path to follow. I'm also trying to engage these misinformed, (most likely lost), souls who support abortion, in a simple dialog, showing them that christians can love individuals and that we care about their souls rather than carrying around a sign that says 'ALL DEMOCRATS ARE GOING TO HELL.' That's what you're saying here in a nutshell... why not go after a person's soul, lead him to Christ and then let the Holy Spirit work on their political stance instead of bludgeoning everyone with your bloody club that you call your bible?

 

[Twizzler]

How about this question: Can a Christian be wrong about something but not be evil?

I believe that a Christian can be wrong about something without being evil.

I agree with you, KenH. I'll even take you one further and say that I believe that a born-again believer can unwittingly be an agent of evil if they neglect to study the scriptures on a regular basis and ensure that their walk with the Lord is right and good. I also think that to say otherwise would be very naive.

 

[HankD]

After going through 5 Republican administrations that did little or nothing to stop abortion why would a sane person assume that they would this time? This is like Charley Brown, Lucy, and the football. Every fall she tricked him into trying a field goal kick whil;e she held the ball and every year she jerked it away at the last second.

The Republicans are playing you guys for a fool in the same way. Why should they do anything about abortion? If they reversed the law they might not get the very gullible Christian Right vote.

For once, I think I agree with you alatide.

I started out as a JFK Democrat (pre-Roe v. Wade).

Became a RR Republican until his 2nd term then became an unaffiliated independent though I voted for him again.

He could have at least tried to issue an executive order against abortion.

I may not vote again until Roe v. Wade is overturned or a candidate promises to at least pro-actively try to overturn it.

HankD

 

[Salty]

...I may not vote again until Roe v. Wade is overturned or a candidate promises to at least pro-actively try to overturn it.

HankD

Then I suggest you run for office! - Seriously

 

[BigBossman]

Some here claim that all democrats on this board or anyone else who voted for Obama support abortion. I think it would be useful to have a poll to determine whether this is true. I'm not going to get into the finer points like what if the mother's life is truly in danger and the choice is whether to save the mother or the child. That muddies the issue. I'm simply asking a simple questio:

My question to those who oppose abortion, but support Obama is doesn't that seem to contradict what you stand for? I could understand someone feeling sorry for voting for him, but its not like it was any surprise that he supports abortion. What people need to do is vote for someone who supports their views & beliefs wholeheartidly. At least that way, you'll know that you supported someone & didn't compromise what you believe.