Post-tribulation doctrine

So that's what they are, "two prepositional phrases." I say you should never be to old to learn something or maybe its you're to old to remember something

The two phrases are:

"of your coming" and "of the end of the age"

Both phrases are answered with the same sign.

That sign is the rider on the white horse that signals to the world that Jesus is returning (Zec. 14:4), and the setting up of his kingdom that ends this age as we know it.

 

The world will never end, the KJV has a lot of minor mistakes compared to other versions. The earth as we know it is the present age, after the Mill it will be renovated by fire and become known as the new earth (Rev. 21:1).

Of the two propositions the "sign of your coming" is answered in the same chapter, verse 30: "At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will se the son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory."

When he comes the God of this world will be locked in the Abyss for a thousand years (Rev. 20:3), and is when the saints will rule with Christ (V. 4). Christ's reign is the age that follows Satan's rule on earth and is the new age and final one before the eternal state when there will be no more ages to come.

 

Prophecynut: "The end of the age is the Second Coming
after Tribulation yet ED says there are no signs given
before the end of the age."

YOur problem is using the wrong definition.
The pretribulation definition is incompatable
with the different postribulation deifintions.
The End of this Age is the rapture coming BEFORE the tribulation.
Yes, there is no sign given before the end of the age.

However, Matthew 24:1-14 does show some signs that the
Church Age (AKA: Gentile Age, Age of Grace) is continuing.
For example as long as there are wars and rumors of wars
the Antichrist is not come (he comes after the rapture).
When peace begings to break out all over the place -
a sign things have changed.

Here are the continuing signs of one sort that the Church
Age continues:

Matthew 24:14 (HCSB):

This good news of the kingdom will be proclaimed
in all the world as a testimony to all nations.
And then the end will come.


Items quoted from THE ALMANAC OF THE CHRISTIAN WORLD,
1991-1992 Edition (Tyndale, 1990), page 305+.

61AD - Colossians 1:6 (HCSB):
the gospel that has come to you. It is bearing fruit
and growing all over the world, just as it has
among you since the day you heard it and recognized
God's grace in the truth.

c. 140AD - Hermas writes: "The Son of God ... has
been preached to the ends of the earth" (Shepherd
of Hermas).

197AD - Tertullian (c160-222) ... writes ... "There
is no nation indeed which is not Christian" ...

c. 205AD - Clement of Alexandria (c155-215) ... writes
"The whole world, with Athens and Greece, has already
become the domain of the Word."

c. 310 - Eusebius of Caesarea (c265-339) writes ...
""The doctrine of the Savious
has irradiated the whole Oikumene
(whole inhabited earth)"

378 - Jerome (c345-419) writes: "From India to Britian, all
nations resound with the death and resurrection of CHrist".
estimates 1.9 million Christians to have been marytred
since AD33 (out of 120 million Christians). ...

etc.

 

On the back of our
ONE DOLLAR bill is the phrase in latin:
"Novus Ordo Seclorum". The old translation
is "New Order for the Ages".
But now days more translate it:
"New World Ordor"

"Aion" can mean "world "but it means so
in respect to time not to other
physical qualities. We get our
word "aeon" (a long period of time)
from this Greek "Aion".

Here is my word study on the "Aion":
------------------------------------
"AGE" in the New King James Version (nKJV).

The KJV tends to confuse the Greek "aeon" /age/ and
Greek "cosmos" /world/ and calles them both "world".
So i'll use the nKJV for my word study on "age".
References to how old someone is (AKA: "age") have been eliminated.


Mt 12:32 (nKJV):
Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man,
it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit,
it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come.

Mt 13:39 (nKJV):
The enemy who sowed them is the devil, the harvest
is the end of the age, and the reapers are the angels.

*souls shall be harvested at the end of this age

Mt 13:40 (nKJV):
Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire,
so it will be at the end of this age.

Mt 13:49 (nKJV):
So it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come
forth, separate the wicked from among the just,

Mt 24:3 (nKJV):
Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came
to Him privately, saying, "Tell us, when will these things be?
And what will be the sign of Your coming,
and of the end of the age?"

Mt 28:20 (nKJV):
teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you;
and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age." Amen.

*Jesus is with us completely to the end of the age.
*the age has an end

Mr 10:30 (nKJV):
who shall not receive a hundredfold now in this time--houses
and brothers and sisters and mothers and children and lands,
with persecutions--and in the age to come, eternal life.

*people will have eternal life, in the age to come

Lu 18:30 (nKJV):
who shall not receive many times more in this present time,
and in the age to come eternal life."

Lu 20:34-35 (nKJV):
34. And Jesus answered and said to them, "The sons of this age marry
and are given in marriage.
35. But those who are counted worthy to attain that age,
and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage;

*there is a future age when marriage is NOT, after resurrection from the dead

1Co 1:20 (nKJV):
Where is the wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the disputer
of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?

*this age has a disputer

1Co 2:6 (nKJV):
However, we speak wisdom among those who are mature,
yet not the wisdom of this age, nor of the rulers of this age,
who are coming to nothing.

*the wisdom of this age will come to nothing
*the rules of this age will come to nothing

1Co 2:8 (nKJV):
which none of the rulers of this age knew; for had they known,
they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

1Co 3:18 (nKJV):
Let no one deceive himself. If anyone among you seems
to be wise in this age, let him become a fool that he may become wise.

2Co 4:4 (nKJV):
whose minds the god of this age has blinded, who do not believe,
lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ,
who is the image of God, should shine on them.

*the god of this age is NOT Jesus, the Christ

Ga 1:4 (nKJV):
who gave Himself for our sins, that He might deliver
us from this present evil age, according to the will
of our God and Father,

*this age is evil

Eph 1:21 (nKJV):
far above all principality and power and might and dominion,
and every name that is named, not only in this age
but also in that which is to come.

*there is an age to follow this age

Eph 6:12 (nKJV):
For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities,
against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age,
against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.

* this age is dark

1Ti 6:17 (nKJV):
Command those who are rich in this present age not to be haughty,
nor to trust in uncertain riches but in the living God, who gives
us richly all things to enjoy.

* this age has rich people in it

Tit 2:12 (nKJV):
teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts,
we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age,

Heb 6:5 (nKJV):
and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,

This great section on the Security of the Believer
speaks of an "age to come".
* there will be "good ... powers" in the age to come.

AGES in the KJV1769:

Eph 2:7 (KJV1769):
That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches
of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

**There will be ages after this age.

Eph 3:5 (KJV1769):
Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men,
as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

Eph 3:21 (KJV1769):
Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages,
world without end. Amen.

Col 1:26 (KJV1769):
Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages
and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:

*There were ages before this age.
*ages are similiar to generations

 

The coming and the end of the age are simultaneous.

The Bible Knowledge Commentary by Walvoord and Zuck of the Dallas Theological Seminary has: "Four disciples, Peter, James, John, and Andrew (Mark 13:3), plainly asked Jesus two questions: (1) When will this happen: That is, when will the temple be destroyed and not one stone left on another? (2) What will be the sign of Your coming and of the end of the Age?"

 

MouseGuy,

Matthew does not record the answer to "when shall these things be?" Luke does.

Disappointed that Walvoord and Zuck combine the two questios into one. May check to see if they break down differently in any BibSac articles next week if time (have on CD).

 

I hope you are not offended when i show you where the post trib Doctrine is inaccurate.
Many will recieve Christ after the rapture I do however agree that those who were not saved until after the calling up of the church will not take part of the marriage supper. so lets look at what you are failing to read concerning youre 7 day Advent Doctrine.
any one whos name is written in the Lambs book of life dead or alive during the church age will be called up either resurected or raptured and will take their part in the marriage supper.
No one who is saved will be left behind.
Revelation 19:11-21 dosent mention a resurrection the rapture is a resurrection of those "in Christ" (1 Thess 4:13-18).
Isn't it a little bit odd than in REV.19:11-21 which is the clearest picture of the second comming of Christ mentions no resurrection?
the rapture will be the biggest event since the resurrection of jesus where hundreds of millions of christians will be resurrected and trannsformed. yet there isn't any mention here. dont you think it deserves at least one verse? the repture isnt mentioned because it doesn't happen at the second comming.

Zechariah 14:1-15 dosen't mention a resurrection this is an old testament picture of Jesus returning to earth at the second comming, agin no mention of a resurrection.

the 24 Elders have their crowns after John is called up into heaven he sees the 24 elders with their crowns REV 4:4-10
we know that christians will recieve their crowns at the rapture 2 tim 4:8, 1 Peter5:4 we will be raptured at the resurrection of the righteous Luke 14:14 the elders couldnt recieve their crowns unless the resurrection has taken place.

the holy ones are already with Jesus in Heaven Zech 14:5,Rev 19:14. The armies in heaven clothed in fine linen, follow Jesus out of heaven at His second coming Rev 19:14, Zech 14:5, Col 3:4. these are not angels because Rev. 19:8 tells us that fine linen is the righteousness of the saints. in order to come out of heaven we first must go into heaven indicating a previous rapture.

Rev.3:10 Says We will be Kept out of the hour of testing which will come upon the whole earth (the Tribulation period). Some have wrongfully believed 'Keep" to keep through, or protect through the tribulation, supose you approach a high voltage area with a sign that says "Keep out" does that man you can enter and be protected? NO it means you are forbidden to from entering the area but this verse also says He will Keep us from the Hour of testing. It is not just the testing, but a time period.

Jesus will recieve us unto himself not us to recieve Him
John 14:2-3 Jesus said he would prepare a place for the Church in Heaven, then he would come agin to recieve us to himself why would Jesus prepare a place for us in heaven then not take us there? At the rapture he will come to recieve us to Himself " that where I am (Heaven) there you may be also." if the rapture occured at the same time as the second coming. we would go up into the clouds and then immediately come back to earth. that would contradict John 14:2-3.

In 2 Thess 2:6-7 paul says " the one who restrains will be taken out of the way" before the antichrist can be revealed the church must be taken from the earth, the churchis clearly the biggest obstacle to the antichrist becoming a world ruler, this verse is Speaking of the holy Spirit when the holy spirit is taken away this also means that the one who the Holy spirit lives in must be taken away also.
If the wicked are cast into hell at Christs second coming who will be left to populate the earth during the millinnium?
Only people in their natural Non resurrected bodys will be able to have children (Matt22:30) With a pre trib rapture, the people saved after the rapture who are alive at the second comming will populate the earth during the Millinnium.

the 144 thousand Jews who make up the 12 tribes of Judah who are scattered all over the world will not come to know Christ as their savior until after the Rapture God will protect them through the Trib because these are the people who will spread the message of the Gospel of Jesus Christ through out the world Rev 7 the 2 witnesses will prophecy Revelation 11:3

Revelation 14: 6. And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
7. Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

yes people will be saved during the tribulation but it will be very hard and many will be Martyred for not recieving the mark of the Beast.
any denomination that takes scripture out of context to make it fit their doctrine has not fully studied the scriptures,
Read and study the whole book of Revelation let the word of God Correct you and you not correct it that is exactly what happens when people take a scripture from this book and pin it next to another verse from another book we can make it say any thing we want. most every verse in the bible will give reference to another chapter or verse from another book in the bible which will edify both passages of scripture.
Read the Revelation and ask God
what does the scripture clearly say?
what does the scripture not say?
who was the book written to?
who wrote it?
who said it?
dont bring youre personal assumptions and precieved notions into youre understandings or conclusions

do not make conclusions based on partial facts or insufficient information or the opinions and speculations of others.

opinions, regardless of how strongly you feel about them dont necessiliary count.

If you rerad and study the whole book of Revelation and ask God to reveal to you what HE wants you to understand about it then you may be able to see where the the doctrine of Eschatoligy you have been taught is incorrect.

Yes People will be saved during the 7 year tribulation but the day of salvation is today for no one is guaranteed tomorrow and no man knows the hour or the day when the Lord will recieve us us into his kingdom God is a God of Mercy and Grace and He wants fellowship with each and every one of us.
when Jesus plants his feet back on the earth only then will it be to late to repent for those who are left behind.

 

the rider on the white hores as described in REV. CH 6 is the antichrist

 

the rider on the white hores as described in REV. CH 6 is the antichrist who will come to decieve the nations of earth.

Revelation 6

 

I am sorry for the multiplr posts but I accidentally hit the submit key by mistake

ZEC.14: describes the prophecy of Christs second coming as King of kings and Lord of lords as decribed by John in Rev. 19.

11. And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
12. His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
13. And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
14. And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
15. And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
16. And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

 

Concerning the return of Jesus, the Bible presents a day we cannot know and a day we can know.
Matthew 25:13 says Jesus will return at an unknown time, while Rev. 12:6 the Jews will have to wait 1260 days for the lord to return. the 1260 days. the 1260 days begins when the Antichrist stands in the temple (which will shortly be rebuilt) and declares himself to be god (Matt24:15-21, 2 thes. 2:4) this event will take place at the mid point of the 7 year tribulation (Dan. 9:27) the antichrist has authority to rule for 42 months, which is 1260 days Rev. 13:4) and will be cast into the lake of fire by the command of Jesus at His second comingng (Rev. 19:20, 2 Thess. 2:8)
the Known and unknown day must happen at different times, meanint they are 2 seperate events.